DEBATE - CATHOLIC vs PROTESTANT

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7seven7

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Just one thing on reading the Holy Bible literally with private interpretations. You will find contradictions all over the place if it's not read in the context it was written in when it was written. Then when Muslims and Arheists question you on these contradictions, you will be dumbfounded. St Augustine talks about this too. Be careful. Or you will look like fools.
 
Jan 13, 2014
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Ponder this. To read and understand the Holy Bible completely, you MUST be a Catholic. :)
To understand any false religion's beliefes, you must be of that false religion?
that makes no sense at all..

You have to be a cat berglar to really understand cat burglars

you have to be a murderer to really understand murderers?
no

Paul said

1 Pet 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed,
but of incorruptible, by the word of God,
which liveth and abideth for ever.

We need to be born again... the only way is to read eat and live the word of God by prayer
just like it read


all false doctrines will be exposed
first,
that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

that means
DO NOT GO ASK YOUR PASTOR WHAT THIS MEANS OR THAT MEANS

I did not mention ask your priests, because the true christian church has no priests any more Jesus is our priest.

1 Cor 12:28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.

no priests...




I prefer to Go to the Bible and in prayer ask Jesus to show me his truth.
It is the word of God
it is not of any private interpretation...

and God wants us to do this without asking anyone else.




My friend was a catholic all her life, and all through school she never read the Bible
this is brainwashing. She said so.

She read the Bible through,
and her eyes were opened to the truth.

God will not lead you astray if you read the Bible
Jesus died for you.
Jesus wants a relationship with you

This is the first and fundamental truth never taught

all false doctrines will be exposed
first,
that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.


2 Pet 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.


2 Pet 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.


2 Pet 2:2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.

TRUE HERETICS are those who do not teach the Bible
 
Jan 13, 2014
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If you read the bible through you will easily see the truth


John 17:17 Make them like Jesus through thy truth: thy word of God is truth.


Here is a description of the true church:

Eph 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
(No priests)


Eph 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:


Eph 4:14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
(that means to me do not trust men what the Bible says)


Eph 4:15 But speaking the word of God the Bible in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:


Eph 4:16 From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.
Eph 4:17 This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind,


Eph 4:18 Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:
(trusting in men making money off you makes you ignorant of the truth)


Eph 4:19 Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.
Eph 4:20 But ye have not so learned Christ;
Eph 4:21 If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the Bible truth is in Jesus:


Eph 4:22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
Eph 4:23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
Eph 4:24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
Eph 4:25 Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another.
Eph 4:26 Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath:
Eph 4:27 Neither give place to the devil.
Eph 4:28 Let him that stole steal no more: (keep the commandments)
but rather let him labour, (no monks or preists)

working with his hands (no priests)
the thing which is good,
that he may have to give to him that needeth.


Eph 4:29 Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth,
but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.
Eph 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
Eph 4:31 Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking,
be put away from you, with all malice:
(stop burning christians at the stake who read the Bible)


Eph 4:32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted,
forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.
Eph 5:1 Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children;
Eph 5:2 And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour.
Eph 5:3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;
Eph 5:4 Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.
Eph 5:5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
Eph 5:6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.
Eph 5:7 Be not ye therefore partakers with them.
Eph 5:8 For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light:
Eph 5:9 (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth;)
Eph 5:10 Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord.
Eph 5:11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.
Eph 5:12 For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret.
Eph 5:13 But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light.

There will be MANY CATHOLICS that come to the truth
many many
the first step is to read the Bible and pray to Jeusu directly to show you the truth
and he will
every sincere seeker of the ruth
will find it.
for it is by his MARRIAGE to you that he leads you.



Eph 5:14 Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light.
Eph 5:15 See then that ye walk circumspectly, not as fools, but as wise,
Eph 5:16 Redeeming the time, because the days are evil.
Eph 5:17 Wherefore be ye not unwise, but understanding what the will of the Lord is.
Eph 5:18 And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;
Eph 5:19 Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;
Eph 5:20 Giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ;
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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I am quite familiar with the catholic doctrine of unbroken lineage from Peter, but can you tell me why Paul is given back seat in the catholic church to Peter?
From what I Know, Catholic believe, that Peter is the first pope and he reign from 32 to 67 AD.
seem to me it is inconsistent with the act 28. When Paul arrive at Rome, Jew not sure about what is christian teaching.

They come to Paul and listen from morning till evening
Act 28:
[SUP]21[/SUP] And they said unto him, We neither received letters out of Judaea concerning thee, neither any of the brethren that came shewed or spake any harm of thee.
[SUP]22[/SUP] But we desire to hear of thee what thou thinkest: for as concerning this sect, we know that every where it is spoken against.
[SUP]23[/SUP] And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening.
[SUP]24[/SUP] And some believed the things which were spoken, and some believed not.
Paul arrive at Rome about 60 AD,
If Peter were there since the year 32 AD, then what is Peter doing there. Peter is a apostle for the Jew, They may not convert, but for 28 years Peter teach there to Jew, at least Jew community know what is the teaching of Jesus.
 
Jun 30, 2011
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Just one thing on reading the Holy Bible literally with private interpretations. You will find contradictions all over the place if it's not read in the context it was written in when it was written. Then when Muslims and Arheists question you on these contradictions, you will be dumbfounded. St Augustine talks about this too. Be careful. Or you will look like fools.
There are literal, poetic, and other forms of literature in the Bible. The Bible is pretty plain and easy to read. If you put your own view onto it, sure you will get all sorts of religious fallacies. God doesn't make the Bible so hard it has to be explained to you. It tells you how to be saved, and how to know you are saved.

It's religious people who make up little rules to follow that are extrabiblical that send people to hell
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
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This was the question I posed to both Dcontroversal and notuptome.......... If a justified believer commits adultery and murder, then does that individual lose his or her justification and therefore needs to repent of those sins, as we Catholics believe, in order to regain one's justification?

And this was notuptome's answer...



So notuptome believes a justified believer can later commit adultery and murder without losing one's justification and therefore not losing one's salvation. Plus he believes repentance is not necessary to regain one's justification. I would like to know if the non-Catholics in this forum agree with what notuptome has said. I look forward to reading the answers you post.
I knew you were building a straw man to support your argument. Sin is sin and there is no difference in Gods eyes. If you sin a sin no matter what it is they are all equal. I know that rome teaches mortal and venial sins but the bible does not. Telling a lie is the same as adultery in the heart and stealing is the same as murder under the law.

Christians are in Christ by grace not by their own merits. Under grace there is no more condemnation. For the Christian there is only the judgment seat of Christ where we account for what we have done since we are saved. Our works go through the fire to be tested but we do not go through the fire to determine our eternal salvation.

You are mixing a lot of tares in with the wheat but in the end God separates them all out. If you had bothered to look at 1 Corinthians 5 you would have seen that Paul did not condemn the man even though he was in open sin in the congregation. Paul said leave him to God to judge and pray for his restoration which is later recorded.

Why do you despise Gods perfect justice? Why do you prefer works to grace? If you died today would you go to heaven? If so why?

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
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So are you saying that if you have been justified in Christ and saved then you murder or commit adultery, that if you don't restore that fellowship with Christ you can still get to heaven? Even after you killed someone or raped or adulterated? Is that really what you're saying? Cz that would be taking complete advantage of God Almighty lol I really hope I misunderstood you. And if I did, then please explain.
You do not understand Gods grace. When God through grace removes our sins from us as far as the east is from the west He will remember them no more. There are no sins that God will remember in relation to our eternal salvation once we have received Christ as our Savior. Christ ever lives to intercede for us before the Father. Our Eternal High Priest.

Scripture cautions us that those who are in Christ do not do the things of which you speak nor do they rape innocent children in the church. Stop with the straw men already and stick to scripture. The new creation in Christ does not do the things the old man did. If he does then we must question if he possesses that which he professes. We know who is who by their fruits not by their words.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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[SUP]Only if some one abide in Christ, bear fruit. One can not produce fruit by oneself. The fruit of the Holy spirit is love, and if one love other he will not murder. Can some body kill his own children because he love them?

That way no body can save himself. Good Deed is the product of Holy spirit after one abide in Him.

The bible say no body can bear fruit by it self, like a branch produce fruit without abide in vine.

All we net to do is abide and the vine, not our self will produce the fruit for us.

If somebody say he is in Christ and not pruduce the goog fruit, He is a liar.

3[/SUP] Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.

[SUP]4[/SUP] Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
[SUP]5[/SUP] I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
[SUP]6[/SUP] If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
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[SUP]Only if some one abide in Christ, bear fruit. One can not produce fruit by oneself. The fruit of the Holy spirit is love, and if one love other he will not murder. Can some body kill his own children because he love them?

That way no body can save himself. Good Deed is the product of Holy spirit after one abide in Him.

The bible say no body can bear fruit by it self, like a branch produce fruit without abide in vine.

All we net to do is abide and the vine, not our self will produce the fruit for us.

If somebody say he is in Christ and not pruduce the goog fruit, He is a liar.

3[/SUP] Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.

[SUP]4[/SUP] Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
[SUP]5[/SUP] I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
[SUP]6[/SUP] If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
Can you adequately explain this passage to support your position? How do you determine what fruit a person must produce to justify himself for you?

The abiding part is interesting as well. What does it mean to abide?

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
T

Thorsson

Guest
catholic all the way, it was the first!
Yeah, just throwing money at the church makes all your sins go away, that's the proper Catholic way. Martin Luther wanted to fix certain problems in Catholicism but he was thrown out of the church, the Catholics wanted to continue their sinful acts thus a new church, closer to Jesus' teachings, was born.

by grace alone through faith alone because of Christ alone
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
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Yeah, just throwing money at the church makes all your sins go away, that's the proper Catholic way. Martin Luther wanted to fix certain problems in Catholicism but he was thrown out of the church, the Catholics wanted to continue their sinful acts thus a new church, closer to Jesus' teachings, was born.

by grace alone through faith alone because of Christ alone
"St Peter's" basilicia was built on indulgence money.....for just under $2 the Catholic Church would give a "indilgance" basically a get out of jail free card in which one could rape a virgin, for under $2. Different sins had different prices, you think rich people loaded up on rape tickets?

It is laughable that anyone can even think this is the kingdom of the Most High, it is clearly shown over, and over to be satanic.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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Can you adequately explain this passage to support your position? How do you determine what fruit a person must produce to justify himself for you?

The abiding part is interesting as well. What does it mean to abide?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Fruit is a product of vine, not a product of a person. As a branches cannot bear fruit of itself except it abide ind the vine.

A fruit is not the requirement for salvation but a product of being abide to the Lord.

verse 5. He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit.

Seem to me, the fruit is indicator that person is or is not abide in Him/ save.

In other word, Fruit is product of salvation base on these verse.

Abide is trust in Jesus, and ask Him to be the King, the one that direct our life. When we surrender and ask Him to be Director or our life, Then He direct us to do love, like love your enemy etc.

A non Christian may produce love, example, love his son, or parent, but not his enemy. Jesus said, the branch cannot bear fruit of itself. But not agape love.

And the fruit of Holy spirit is Love

Galatians 5[SUP]22[/SUP] But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,[SUP]23[/SUP] Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
 
S

SilkandDungarees6

Guest


Dcontroversal and notuptome have both made the claim that a justified person can later commit grave mortal sins such as adultery and murder, and yet still go to heaven without the necessity of repenting of those sins unto salvation, because they have said repentance doesn't have anything to do with one remaining justified. So they both believe justified persons can commit grave serious sins, and this obviously would also have to include not just adultery and murder, but also homosexuality and child rape(pedophilia). So you non-catholic once saved, always saved eternal security believers actually are claiming that there are presently unrepentant adulterers, unrepentant homosexuals, unrepentant murderers and unrepentant child rapists(pedophiles) in heaven right now.

NOW DOES EVERYONE READING THIS THREAD SEE JUST HOW EVIL AND WICKED THE "PROTESTANT" FALSE DOCTRINE IS ?


The true doctrines of my Lord, Jesus Christ, can only be found in his Holy Catholic Church
 
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NOW DOES EVERYONE READING THIS THREAD SEE JUST HOW EVIL AND WICKED THE "PROTESTANT" FALSE DOCTRINE IS ?
O.S.A.S. has some problems, yes, I have on my task list to examine some issues with Beza's (Calvinist) compilation of the Epistle to the Hebrews. I will start a thread if I find anything edifying.

-> KJV Onlyism | King James Only | The Only Word of God

"
Staunch Calvinist Theodore Beza was one of the editors of the Textus Receptus. The KJV translators had his changes, which included "If they shall fall away" in Heb. 6:6. Such a misrendering helps to preserve Calvinism's perseverance of the saints. Adam Clarke's commentary shows the errors of that as being: (a) the word "If" was unjustly inserted and (b) the tense is aorist, meaning it should be translated in the past tense, "HAVE fallen away." Another distortion occurred at Heb. 10:38!"

The true doctrines of my Lord, Jesus Christ, can only be found in his Holy Catholic Church
Ecclesia Romana non sequitur

Actus 11:26 ... ita ut cognominarentur primum Antiochiae discipuli Christiani (VULGATE)

Acts 11:26
... at Antioch the disciples were first named Christians.
(DRA 1899)

lordsprayeraram.jpg


[video=youtube;HpHZCeXbMjU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HpHZCeXbMjU[/video]
 
J

ji

Guest
So true...and I am neither so, that really adds to the (makes no difference to me) category and or the (who cares) category.
Holy Bible mention none.Men gave these titles for convenience and in course of time titles became organization/constitution.
 
J

ji

Guest


Dcontroversal and notuptome have both made the claim that a justified person can later commit grave mortal sins such as adultery and murder, and yet still go to heaven without the necessity of repenting of those sins unto salvation, because they have said repentance doesn't have anything to do with one remaining justified. So they both believe justified persons can commit grave serious sins, and this obviously would also have to include not just adultery and murder, but also homosexuality and child rape(pedophilia). So you non-catholic once saved, always saved eternal security believers actually are claiming that there are presently unrepentant adulterers, unrepentant homosexuals, unrepentant murderers and unrepentant child rapists(pedophiles) in heaven right now.

NOW DOES EVERYONE READING THIS THREAD SEE JUST HOW EVIL AND WICKED THE "PROTESTANT" FALSE DOCTRINE IS ?


The true doctrines of my Lord, Jesus Christ, can only be found in his Holy Catholic Church
Holy Scripture says about none of these sects.Apostles were first called Christians at Antioch,because they were following Christ's doctrine.There are no protestant,catholic,whatever...but Holy Bible speaks about how to live Christian.

Now about sinning after coming to Salvation,God's Grace covers if its weakness in flesh and thereby we can forgive our fellow brethren.And that in long run,makes a Christian's Faith stronger..because His Strength is made Perfect in my weakness and that support urge me to move more in God and less in world,which in turn makes me more sinless..

Do you know any Perfect sinless Christian?
And what has catholicism got to do with Christianity?
catholicism promotes worshiping dead saints,giving money to make dead people enter heaven,child baptism(woe to them that do so!!!),etc...
 
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Purgatory is proof that the rcc is not Christian church!it make void the finished work and redemption of christ!
 
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Dcontroversal and notuptome have both made the claim that a justified person can later commit grave mortal sins such as adultery and murder, and yet still go to heaven without the necessity of repenting of those sins unto salvation, because they have said repentance doesn't have anything to do with one remaining justified. So they both believe justified persons can commit grave serious sins, and this obviously would also have to include not just adultery and murder, but also homosexuality and child rape(pedophilia). So you non-catholic once saved, always saved eternal security believers actually are claiming that there are presently unrepentant adulterers, unrepentant homosexuals, unrepentant murderers and unrepentant child rapists(pedophiles) in heaven right now.

NOW DOES EVERYONE READING THIS THREAD SEE JUST HOW EVIL AND WICKED THE "PROTESTANT" FALSE DOCTRINE IS ?


The true doctrines of my Lord, Jesus Christ, can only be found in his Holy Catholic Church
no! It is found through the bible final authority not a man made society!