who the heck is Melkizedec? who cares?

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DP

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Melchizedek offered "bread and wine" to Abram, and he blessed Abram, and... Abram gave tithes to him.

These following ideas from Melchizedek in Gen.14 relate directly to Jesus:

1. The bread and wine are symbols of The New Covenant.

2. Levi from whom the Levitical priesthood would be setup, was NOT then born. And the Levites are who God setup for the children of Israel to tithe to, but that would occur 400+ years later... than this time here in Gen.14. And yet Abram tithed to this Melchizedek? So what does that show? Simple, on the side of Mary, our Lord Jesus' mother, were Levites (Mary was cousin to Elisabeth, the mother of John the Baptist and a Levite, look at Elisabeth's husband's office - Luke 1). Jesus is our High Priest, even after the order of Melchizedek (Heb.6:20).

The seeming paradox is simple. Melchizedek (King of Righteousness per Heb.7), was our Lord Jesus BEFORE... He came in the flesh through woman's womb. Since Jesus is GOD The Son, He has always been our High Priest, even BEFORE... He came in the flesh to die on the cross. That's why the Scripture says He was made a High Priest forever, after the order of Melchizedek, which that idea is about the eternal no beginning, no end, High Priesthood that Jesus has always been from Eternity past, present, and future.

Don't let the blind Jews fool you on this, neither do they understand how David would call Jesus "Lord" in the Psalms while Jesus was yet born of the seed of David later.

Matt 22:41-46
41 While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them,
42 Saying, What think ye of Christ? whose son is he? They say unto him, The Son of David.
43 He saith unto them, How then doth David in spirit call him Lord, saying,
44 The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool?
45 If David then call him Lord, how is he his son?
46 And no man was able to answer him a word, neither durst any man from that day forth ask him any more questions.
KJV
 
Feb 11, 2016
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Here I will bring this over from that other thread and touch it up

Theres a fellowship of the mystery between them that is found throughout the volume of the book bearing witness of Jesus Christ.

Ephes 3:9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: (See Hosea 12:10)

Gen 14:18 And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the most high God.

Heb 7:2 To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace;

That is also what his Kingdom in the Holy Ghost is, righteousness peace and joy in the same


Abraham was a prophet, Gen 20:7

And God says how he has spoken by them in Hosea

Hosea 12:10 I have also spoken by the prophets, and I have multiplied visions,
and used similitudes, by the ministry of the prophets.

After his similitude one would arise


Heb 7:15 And it is yet far more evident:
for that after the similitude of Melchisedec
there ariseth another priest,

Which was really speaking of Christ


Psalm 110:4 The LORD hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek.

Who is Lord

Psalm 110:5 The Lord at thy right hand shall strike through kings in the day of his wrath.

Who emmerges out of the myster, or out of the shadows (being the light and Savoir of the world) our great high priest

Heb 5:5- 6 Connects the resurrection to that same place (which is in "the for ever") which is also in accord with the fulfilment of the second psalm mentioned in Acts 13:33 in the raising Christ up, and setting his king upon his holy hill.

I couldnt fit the other one in here so I will post it behind

 
Feb 11, 2016
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My other username

My characters are too long

Christ come forth here


Mic 5:2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting. (Isaiah 7:14, Luke 1:34, 2:4-7)

Hear now House of David (made of a woman made under the law) the sign

Isaiah 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

Luke 1:34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?

Luke 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow hee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

For the law made nothing perfect but the better hope did

Gal 4:4-5 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, To redeem them thatwere under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.

Heb 7:9 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, (shown in Psalm 110:4) and not be called after the order of Aaron?

So, if he were on earth he should not be a priest, why?

Heb 7:14 For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.

This is evident, even in Micah, and its not even in dispute

Luke 17:14 And when he (Jesus) saw them, he said unto them, Go shew yourselves unto the priests.

Jesus acknowledges the priesthood, saying, GO shew yourselves to such

Heb 7:21(For those priests were made without an oath; but this with an oath by him that said unto him, The Lord sware and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec )

So he is the one with the oath (a priest for ever)

Heb 7:23 And they truly were many priests, because they were not suffered to continue by reason of death:

Heb 7:24 But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood.

He didnt take this honour to himself

Heb 5:4 And no man taketh this honour unto himself, but he that is called of God, as was Aaron.

John 8:54 Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God:

Heb 5:5 So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee.

Heb 5:10 Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec.

Heb 5:11 Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing

Obvioulsy, but earlier on

Mat 22:41 While the Pharisees were gathered together,

Jesus asked them,

Mat 22:42 Saying, What think ye of Christ? whose son is he?

They say unto him, The son of David.

Mat 22:43 He saith unto them,

How then doth David in spirit call him Lord, saying,


Mat 22:44 The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool. (Psalm 110:1, Acts 2:31-34)

He saith unto them,

Mat 22:45 If David then call him Lord, how is he his son? (Psalm 110:1)

They couldnt answer the "how" but the apostles expound upon this,

Acts 2:30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;

Having set his King on his holy hill, here is where he is declared

Romans 1:4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:

Who is the first begotten of the dead

This day (in the second psalm needed to be fulfilled)

Psalm 2:7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee

God had to fulfill the second psalm and did so in Jesus Christ

Acts 13:33 God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.

Where He is openly declared the Son of God (Psalm 2:7, Mt 22:45)

Who is also a priest (Gen 14:18)

Heb 5:6 As he saith also in another place,

Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.
(Psalm 110:4, Heb 7:11)

Who is also a King and who was made Lord (Acts 2:36, Mt 22:45)

Psalm 110:1 The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.

And the Lord shall strike through kings

Psalm 110:5 The Lord at thy right hand shall strike through kings in the day of his wrath.

Which in his times he shall shew...

1Ti 6:15 Which in his times he shall shew,

who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;


And such a time shown in his wrath

Rev 6:15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

Rev 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

Rev 6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God

It says,

Psalm 2:12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little.

Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.

And of wrath,

1Thes 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

The Word was made flesh

Rev 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood:

And his name is called The Word of God.

Heb 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power,when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

Rev 19:16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

Proverbs begs the question this way

Prov 30:4 Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what is his name, and what is his son's name, if thou canst tell?

The apostles argue against the possibility of it being David (who was dead and buried and in a sepulchre) but take up what David said

Acts 2:34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, UntilI make thy foes thy footstool.

Acts 2:31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.

Jesus said

Go to my brethren, and say unto them,

I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

Acts 1:9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.

Redemption...

Isaiah 44:2 I have blotted out, as a thick cloud, thy transgressions, and, as a cloud, thy sins: return unto me; for I have redeemed thee.

When he had by himself purged our sins,

Col 1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

Having sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

Mat 22:44 The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool. (Psalm 110:1, Acts 2:31-34)

Acts 5:31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

Acts 13:38 Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins:

1John 4:9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.

Jesus said,

Luke 24:48 And ye are witnesses of these things.

The apostles,

Acts 2:32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.

Acts 2:33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

Ephes 4:8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.

Heb 8:1 Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne ofthe Majesty in the heavens;

1Cr 15:27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.

1Cr 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things underhim, that God may be all in all.

1Ti 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

1Ti 6:16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: towhom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

Isaiah 55:4 Behold, I have given him for a witness to the people, a leader and commander to the people.

Rev 1:5 From Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto himthat loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

Acts 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

Acts 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

The Greater

Heb 6:13 For when God made promise to Abraham, because he could swear by no greater, he sware by himself,

Jesus said....the Father is greater I

John 10:29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

Heb 6:16 For men verily swear by the greater:

and an oath for confirmation is to the end of all strife.


Heb 6:17 Wherein God, willing more abundantly to shew unto the heirs of promise the immutability of his counsel, confirmed it by an oath:

Heb 6:18 That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us:

Heb 6:19 Which hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and stedfast, and which entereth into that within the veil;

Heb 6:20 Whither the forerunner is for us entered, even Jesus, made an high priest for ever after the order of Melchisedek

Heb 7:20 And inasmuch as not without an oath he was made priest:

Heb 7:21..By him that said unto him, The LORD sware and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec

Abram's name wasn't even changed until after he met Melchizedek also (Gen 14:19 & 17:5)

John 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

Gen 14:18 And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the most high God. And he blessed him, and said, Blessed be Abram of the most high God, possessor of heaven and earth:

Abram's name was changed to Abraham here

Gen 17:5 Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.

Even in that respect.

Melchizedek was the first to bring forth the bread and the wine

Gen 14:18 And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the most high God.

Jesus likewise with his disciples

Luke 22:19 And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this doin remembrance me. And he took the cup, and when he had given thanks, he gave it to them: and they all drank of it.

Which shows his death. If he were on earth he should not be a priest (Heb 8:4) even as elsewhere it says his life was taken from the earth (in Isaiah 53:8, being cut off out of the land of the living Acts 8:33).

So this much is evident,

Heb 7:14 For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda;

of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.

And again,

Heb 7:15 And it is yet far more evident:

for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest, (Psalm 110:4)

Which is a similitude for Jesus Christ (Hosea 12:10, Heb 7:15)

Psalm 110:4 The LORD hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek.

If he were on earth he should not be a priest, (springing out of Judah)

Even though in Mic 5:2... out of thee (Judah) shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel

His life was taken from the earth

Jesus said,

John 14:28 I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

David himself saw before the resurrection of Jesus Christ

Psalm 110:1 The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.

His goings forth which have been from old (even from everlasting)

Mic 5:2....whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.

They asked,

John 8:53 Art thou greater than our father Abraham ?

Hebrews seems to take this up

Heb 7:4 Now consider how great this man was, unto whom even the patriarch Abraham gave the tenth of the spoils.

As Jesus had said,

John 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.

John 8:57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?

See it??

Mic 5:2....whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.

Heb 7:1 For this Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the most high God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him;

Heb 7:7 And without all contradiction the less is blessed of the better.

I just like this combo

John 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.

Gen 4:18 And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the most high God.

Psalm 104:15 And wine that maketh glad the heart of man, and oil to make his face to shine, and bread which strengtheneth man's heart.

Psalm 118:24 This is the day which the LORD hath made; we will rejoice and be glad in it.

Heb 7:2 To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace;

He is the Lord our righteousness, even as He is our peace.

Heb 4:14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.

John 5:23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.


 
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badger58

Guest
What does it mean that Jesus was a priest like the "Order of Melchizedek" in Hebrews 7:11?

hebrews melchizedek


In Genesis 14 there is a man named Melchizedek. He is not mentioned very much and you might argue that he does not seem very important from this text alone.


17 After Abram returned from defeating Kedorlaomer and the kings allied with him, the king of Sodom came out to meet him in the Valley of Shaveh (that is, the King’s Valley). 18 Then Melchizedek king of Salem brought out bread and wine. He was priest of God Most High, 19 and he blessed Abram, saying, "Blessed be Abram by God Most High, Creator of heaven and earth. 20And praise be to God Most High, who delivered your enemies into your hand." Then Abram gave him a tenth of everything.

(Genesis 14:17-20, NIV)

Except one of the Psalms, this is only one place in the Hebrew Bible where he is mentioned at all.


The Lord has sworn and will not change his mind: "You are a priest forever, in the order of Melchizedek."

(Psalm 110:4, NIV)

In the Christian New testament he is, however, mentioned in the book of Hebrews a lot—and it seems like he is really important there. The author of Hebrews makes an argument that spans from chapter 5 to chapter 7 were Christ is compared to Melchizedek:


5 In the same way, Christ did not take on himself the glory of becoming a high priest. But God said to him, "You are my Son; today I have become your Father.” 6 And he says in another place, "You are a priest forever, in the order of Melchizedek."

(Hebrews 5:5-6, NIV)

Christ is said to be indirectly "in the order of Melchizedek" in Hebrews 7:


7If perfection could have been attained through the Levitical priesthood—and indeed the law given to the people established that priesthood—why was there still need for another priest to come, one in the order of Melchizedek, not in the order of Aaron?

(Hebrews 7:11, NIV, emphasis mine)

Why is Melchizedek such an important character for the author of Hebrews and what does it mean that Christ is "in the order of Melchizedek"?
 
Feb 11, 2016
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Heres another, we were looking at this also

When Jesus pointed out to the Pharisees in Mat 22:42-46 the Psalm 110:1 The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool
. which they couldnt answer him and this same is found again in Acts 2:34-36 and is expounded upon as speakingof his resurrection.

John himself come baptizing (as he who was sent before the Lord) who was to spring out of Judah (as that was the one thing that was evident to them Mat 1:2-6 ) who was before John (his messenger) Mal 3:1 sent by God John 1:6, Luke 7:27 and he come baptizing that
he might be manifest to Israel John 1:31 (to whom most were blinded). And just as they would know the Lord would spring from Judah (Mic 5:2 as it is written and Mat 2:5 as they point out) out of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning the priesthood. So if he were on earth he should not be a priest (Heb 8:4) The priest is in the "for ever" not in that which death would prevent (the Levitical) priests made so without an oath (but his with an oath) . Just as the above The LORD said unto my Lord sit at my right hand (this obviously being in heaven) David himself said (as the apostles expound) David seeing beforehand spake of the resurrection of Christ Acts 2:31 which is followed up by The LORD hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek (Psalm 110:4). Up further still in Acts 13:33 they are still expounding Christ being raised him from the dead and they bring in the second psalm (which they said God was to fulfill) and did Paul continues saying, God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, ((( in that )))) he hath (( raised up )) Jesus (( again )); as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee. That priest for ever is tied into His being begotten from the dead, that is where its declared to him (thou art a priest for ever) and not on earth (Heb 5:5-6)

The only begotten Son of God, made Lord and Christ is the first begotten of the dead
((this day)) I have begotten thee


The high priest part of it according to the alive for ever, which death does not prevent (and whose death empowers) seeing a testament is without strength while the tester liveth, these things all wrapped up in Christ

But even as Aaron did not take this honour to himself it says,

Heb 5:5 So also Christ glorified not himself (( to be made )) an high priest; ((( but he )) that said (( unto him )), Thou art my Son, (( to day )) have I begotten thee.

Thou he were a Son, even as God sent His Son

God having sent his only begotten Son into this world, the Word was made flesh. He died according to scripture and was raised up again (Acts 13:33, & Heb 5:5) which agree in Thou art my Son (((to day))) I have begotten (( thee )) which pertains to his being the first begotten from the dead (in both contexts) And this is right on the heels of that verse (where it is in Hebrews) comes this (( As he saith also )) which is pertaining to being made a priest in the for ever sense and said to him at the right hand of God

Heb 5:6 (( As he )) saith also (( in another place )), Thou art a priest (( for ever )) after the order of Melchisedec.

Who alone hath immortality

Heb 5:7 (( Who )) in the days of his flesh, (( when he )) had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears (( unto him )) that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared;

Taking part in our flesh and blood just the same (as we see their fear of death is spoken of)

Heb 2:15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.

Heb 2:16 For verily (( he )) took not (( on him )) the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.


Heb 2:17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him (( to be made )) like unto his brethren, that (( he might be )) a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

2 Ti 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

2 Ti 1:10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath (( abolished )) death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:

Heb 8:1
Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;

Heb 8:2 A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.






 
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Well that was sloppy, sorry bout that, its hard to snip out of studies when you are taking them from one way and then tossing them up.

But anyway, I hope there is significant enough scriptures to help you come to whatever conclusion is the sum of the truth to you.
 

miknik5

Senior Member
Jun 2, 2016
7,833
591
113
We already had that discussion Badger...

How "Loving" is it to withhold the TRUTH from anyone?
Especially when it is the matter of salvation for those who believe and condemnation for those who do not believe...
 
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badger58

Guest
We already had that discussion Badger...

How "Loving" is it to withhold the TRUTH from anyone?
Especially when it is the matter of salvation for those who believe and condemnation for those who do not believe...
I'm trying to have an open dialog with everyone.

You, on the other hand wish to continue with this: I already told you stuff.

How can you ever expect anyone to listen to you, when your delivery style is to hit them over the head and claim Jesus is your

Motivation. It's impossible to believe.

You make me sad. We all want to hear truth, find truth, speak truth, but no one wants the truth shoved down their throat. To

employ such a tactic, is lose all credibility. I'm trying to give you constructive criticism, I'm not trying to be over bearing or a

wise guy.

My next thread is going to be about proper etiquette in how we use the freedom given in Christ. How do we speak to one

another in this chat room, because if you worry about the babes in Christ, well... I see a whole lot of room for growth, from

what I've seen posted. Hitting below the belt and dirty fighting, then claiming it as your zeal for Christ. It's hypocrisy!
 

miknik5

Senior Member
Jun 2, 2016
7,833
591
113
I'm trying to have an open dialog with everyone.

You, on the other hand wish to continue with this: I already told you stuff.

How can you ever expect anyone to listen to you, when your delivery style is to hit them over the head and claim Jesus is your

Motivation. It's impossible to believe.

You make me sad. We all want to hear truth, find truth, speak truth, but no one wants the truth shoved down their throat. To

employ such a tactic, is lose all credibility. I'm trying to give you constructive criticism, I'm not trying to be over bearing or a

wise guy.

My next thread is going to be about proper etiquette in how we use the freedom given in Christ. How do we speak to one

another in this chat room, because if you worry about the babes in Christ, well... I see a whole lot of room for growth, from

what I've seen posted. Hitting below the belt and dirty fighting, then claiming it as your zeal for Christ. It's hypocrisy!
I am "hitting below the belt and fighting dirty?"

Really?

Isn't that your judgment?
And can you really judge rightly?

You can't

Which is why it is written, do NOT judge anything until the time..when HE alone will lay bare the hidden agenda/motives of the heart and the mind of all men and then man will receive his praise.


...or not.
 
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badger58

Guest
We already had that discussion Badger...

How "Loving" is it to withhold the TRUTH from anyone?
Especially when it is the matter of salvation for those who believe and condemnation for those who do not believe...
Like



"I will leave no stone unturned in my pursuit of truth." - Ravi Zacharias

My sentiments exactly! I will follow the evidence. If you wish to show evidence, I am open to that, just don't

tell me: You have done all the study needed and to just trust you. I can't do that. I've been burned by too many.

I have to trust the Holy Spirit and the word of God. After 40 years, that's the only way I know how to find the truth, the whole

truth and nothing but the truth.

Peace
 
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badger58

Guest
I am "hitting below the belt and fighting dirty?"

Really?

Isn't that your judgment?
And can you really judge rightly?

You can't

Which is why it is written, do NOT judge anything until the time..when HE alone will lay bare the hidden agenda/motives of the heart and the mind of all men and then man will receive his praise.


...or not.
I was referring to the entire chat room experience. I was not pointing at you. I'm sorry if you got that impression.
 
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Here is one more, I am trying to sift thru things, maybe this will help (not sure) I have more but alot of it is repeating and adding things into them more often as I am constantly turning these things over in my mind that way.

I cut this off the end of another, just starting here

Heb 7:5 And verily they that are of the sons of Levi,who receive the office of the priesthood,have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law,that is, of their brethren,though they come out of the loins of Abraham:

Heb 7:6 But he (Melchizedek) whose descent is not counted from them received tithes of Abraham, and blessed him that had the promises.

And likewise going forward to the birth of Jesus (the seed to come) and then looking back in respects to the priesthhood this way

Heb 7:14 For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.

Whereas here

Heb 7:6 But he (Melchizedek) whose descent is not counted from them received tithes of Abraham, and blessed him that had the promises.

Even as the lesser (Abraham) is blessed of the better (Melchizedek) the mysterious priest of the most high who was before Abraham and the Levitical priesthood (which was still in the loins of Abraham) whereas it says,

Heb 7:21(For those priests were made without an oath; but this with an oath by him that said unto him, The Lord sware and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec)

Heb 7:2 To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace;

Who being before these (again)

Heb 7:5 And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham:

The Holy Ghost through David prophesies of another priest of a different order (not of the law) even before the law

Psalm 110:4 The LORD hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek (being our Lord at thy right hand vs 5)


So Hebrews asks,

Heb 7:9 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?

And again,

Heb 7:14 For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.

And yet Hebrews also says,

Heb 5:4 And no man taketh this honour unto himself, but he that is called of God, as was Aaron.

And so we see also

Heb 5:5 So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee.

Heb 5:10 Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec.

Heb 5:11 Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing.

Heb 8:1 Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum:

We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;

Heb 8:2 A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man

There are things hard to be uttered in respects to Melchisedec Heb 5:11 and a fellowship of the mystery between them that is found throughout the volume of the book bearing witness of Jesus Christ even as God preached the Gospel before to Abraham (Gal 3:8) in thee all nations shall be blessed after which Melchisedec brought forth the bread and the wine (Gen 14:18) reflecting similarly of Jesus Christ just before he suffered (Abraham laying the wood upon his Son Gen 22:6 (given him by promise) and with whom God would establish his covenant (spoken of here Gen 17:21, born of promise later in Gen 21:3) and offered up in Gen 22:6. What was shown in that figure of faith was in his resurrection (Heb 11:19) having faith in the power of God to raise the dead. That which was shown in a figure (even in Isaac) the son of promise, the same was shown openly in Jesus Christ (Acts 10:40) made of the seed of Abraham. The same who come by promise would offered up (his body) firgured in the bread and wine served Abraham in the similitude of a high pirest, which became so through death shown in Isaac's wood/ Christ's cross and Abrahams faith (even in the power of God) in offering up his only son. From whence came the figure of resurrection and the priest for ever after the order of the one who was before Abraham, which arose out of the similtude made like him.

So there is a mystery, and things hard to be uttered according to the same Heb 5:11 and more specifically concerning Melchizedek, as Paul said, to pray

Ephes 6:19 And for me, that utterance may be given unto me,
that I may open my mouth boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel

Because he was to help men see the very fellowship of the mystery which had been hid in God

Ephes 3:9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ

Gen 14:18 And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the most high God.

Mark 14:22-23 ...Jesus took bread, and blessed, and brake it, and gave to them, and said, Take, eat: this is my body. And he took the cup, and when he had given thanks, he gave it to them: and they all drank of it.

Mark 14:24 And he said unto them, This is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many.

Abraham was a prophet, Gen 20:7 God said, I have also spoken by the prophets, and I have multiplied visions,and used similitudes, by the ministry of the prophets. (Hosea 12:10) It makes sense then that after the similitude of Melchisedec the law which having a shadow of the good things to come and NOT the very image of things, spoke of another outside itself (see Heb 9:11) there would arise another

And so it says,

Heb 7:15 And it is yet far more evident:
for that after the similitude of Melchisedec
there ariseth another priest,

Which was speaking forward to Christ (who said the scriptures testify of me)

Psalm 110:4 The LORD hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek.

Who is Lord at his right hand

Psalm 110:5 The Lord at thy right hand shall strike through kings in the day of his wrath.

Just as Sarah and Hagar in Abraham are shown according to an allegory (as he spake by the prophets using similitudes) likewise as they answered in something other than themselves so also does Melchisedec answer in another

These two

Heb 9:11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;

Heb 10:1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.


 
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badger58

Guest
Thanks Pilgrimpassingthru,
I can see that you've been busy. Lol
And that its not your first rodeo. Haha
I have adopted a new mantra for this thread.
"I will leave no stone unturned in the pursuit of the truth" Robi Zacheriah)
Freedom of information and the exchange of ideas.
No one will be allowed to stop it. I will just
ask everyone to follow the GOLDEN RULE in there posting.
The Berians will be blessed and the rest will just have to put up with us:)
Have a great weekend. I hope that Englands decision to pull out of the EC today doesn't hit our 401k's to badly, but
the lord will provide, He always does!
 
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Hey have a good weekend Badger , God bless you

I forgot to add in (Im all over the place anyway) but I missed this one

Psalm 2:6 Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.

Psalm 2:7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou
art my Son; this day have I begotten thee (this verse and the next are shown together in Christ being raised up in Heb 5:5-6)

Heb 5:6
As he saith also in another place, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

Following thru the Psalm (returning back) he says to him

Psalm 2:8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.

Being at his right hand, God having raised Jesus up again fulfilling this second Psalm (Acts 13:33)

The next, speaking here between that (which receives tithes) on earth and that which receives them (in heaven) here

Heb 7:8 And here men that die receive tithes; but there he receiveth them
, of whom it is witnessed that he liveth.

He receiveth "them" (there) where he is a priest for ever

Heb 8:4 For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law

Peace

 
1

1LonelyKnight

Guest
I recognize 1 cor6:3, but everything else above it, I didn't understand. I'm sorry
I know the feeling, when what comes out of your heart gets lost in the translation. One day, there will be a pure language. That makes me smile. Peace brother
The post, as I am, is a bit Gnostic. The idea of Shem, son of Noah as an enlightened being - perhaps claimed by some to be Melchizadek or Melchizadekian is the starting point. The thought then goes back to Noah relating to Genesis 6:8. The remainder of the post does require some Gnostic or extra-biblical knowledge of both religion and history - both good and valid areas of study. The Noahides, Talmudists and the Noahide law as applied throughout legal history is a deep topic worthy of it's own thread. I encourage you though to do a little internet hopping and read an article or two on the subjects. There will be edification, illumination, and a blessing for your efforts. Feel free to pick apart any part you might like to discuss.

without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. Heb 11:6

Peace
 
Mar 28, 2016
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Well that was sloppy, sorry bout that, its hard to snip out of studies when you are taking them from one way and then tossing them up.

But anyway, I hope there is significant enough scriptures to help you come to whatever conclusion is the sum of the truth to you.
Excellent references thanks for offering them
 

DP

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The key verses here are verses 13 & 14, and they point directly to Christ Jesus.


11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?

12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.


If salvation had come through the Levitical priesthood, why was there a need for Jesus? And why would that priesthood suggested be called after the order of Aaron, since God chose the sons of Aaron to be priests?

13 For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.
14 For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.
KJV


That phrase, "he of whom these things are spoken..." is an identifier to Jesus, as verse 14 seals it with, "For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda."
 
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badger58

Guest
I am looking at this thread from other angles.
So here is a bit of knowledge I found that I agree with.
Do we take the bible literally?

Two Thoughts on Metaphor

Reading any writing the ordinary way requires we understand two points about figurative speech, both implicit in the concept of metaphor.

The New Oxford American Dictionary defines metaphor as “a figure of speech in which a word or phrase is applied to an object or action to which it is not literally applicable…a thing regarded as representative or symbolic of something else.” So, metaphors take one meaning of a word and then creatively leverage it into another meaning to make an impact on a reader.

Here is the first point to be clear on: All metaphors (or other forms of figurative writing) rely first on literal definitions before they can be of any use as figures of speech.

All words must first be understood in their “usual or most basic sense” before they can be used metaphorically. We find, for example, the word “shepherd” prominently featured in the 23rd Psalm. Do you see that we must first understand the literal meaning of “shepherd” before the phrase “the Lord is my shepherd” has any figurative power?

This point is critical for accurate biblical interpretation. Here’s why.

Sometimes we attempt to solve interpretive problems by digging through a Bible dictionary. This can be a helpful place to start, but since all figurative language trades in some way on dictionary definitions, the dictionary is not the final word. It can never tell you what use a specific writer is making of any particular word or phrase.

Strictly speaking, since no word is a metaphor in itself, words cannot be used metaphorically unless they’re embedded in a context. Therefore, it makes no sense to ask of a solitary word, “Is the word meant literally?” because the word standing on its own gives no indication.

Dictionaries by definition can only deal with words in isolation. Other things—context, genre, flow of thought, etc.—determine if the word’s literal sense is being applied in a non-literal way, symbolically “regarded as representative” of something else.

Take two sentences, “The sunshine streamed through my window,” and, “Sweetheart, you’re a ray of sunshine to me this morning.” Sunshine’s literal meaning is the same in each case. However, it is used literally in the first sentence, but metaphorically in the second. Further, unless my wife understands the literal meaning of “sunshine,” she will never understand the compliment I’m offering her in a poetic sort of way.

So first, literal definitions must be in place first before a word can be used figuratively. Second, metaphors are always meant to clarify, not obscure.2

There’s a sense in which figurative speech drives an author’s meaning home in ways that words taken in the ordinary way could never do. “All good allegory,” C.S. Lewis notes, “exists not to hide, but to reveal, to make the inner world more palpable by giving it an (imagined) concrete embodiment.”3

Figurative speech communicates literal truth in a more precise and powerful way than ordinary language can on its own. The strictly literal comment, “Honey, your presence makes me feel good today” doesn’t pack the punch that the “sunshine” figure provides. The metaphor makes my precise point more powerfully than “words in their usual or most basic sense” could accomplish.

Remember, even when metaphor is in play, some literal message is always intended. Hell may not have literal flames,4 but the reality is at least as gruesome, ergo the figure.

Once again, it’s always right to ask, “What is the precise meaning the writer is trying to communicate with his colorful language?” But how do we do that? Here I have a suggestion.
 
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badger58

Guest
Another bit, to help those that are digging through all the data.

Similitude | Definition of Similitude by Merriam-Webster


www​.merriam-webster.com/.../similitude
likeness, similarity, resemblance, similitude, analogy mean agreement or correspondence in details. likeness implies a closer correspondence than similarity which often implies that things are merely somewhat alike
 
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badger58

Guest
Another bit)

Full Definition of vision

1
1 a : something seen in a dream, trance, or ecstasy; especially : a supernatural appearance that conveys a revelationb : a thought, concept, or object formed by the imaginationc : a manifestation to the senses of something immaterial <look, not at visions, but at realities — Edith Wharton>

2
2 a : the act or power of imaginationb (1) : mode of seeing or conceiving (2) : unusual discernment or foresight <a person of vision>c : direct mystical awareness of the supernatural usually in visible form