Can We Really Exercise Free Will?
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So you don't personally believe in the Lord Jesus Christ? @Cameron143 does not have an intimate, personal faith and relationship in the Lord Jesus Christ.
God believes for you?
How does an intimate personal faith in The Lord Jesus Christ take away His Glory? Seems to only add to it IMO.
God believes for you?
How does an intimate personal faith in The Lord Jesus Christ take away His Glory? Seems to only add to it IMO.
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We (not just you and me) can get close to agreement on some language but find in the details that we don't actually agree.
Simply put, at this time I side with the interpretation that election as we're discussing it is corporate rather than individualistic. And yes, the Godhead will make His Plan regarding Election work. As @lrs68 essentially said a few posts ago, the Elect lineage has been intact humanely speaking at least from Abraham and onward through history to his Seed - Jesus, YHWH's Chosen One from time eternal.
IOW, the Elect is Christ's Body, and we enter into it by choosing to take hold of His Grace offered to all.
Simply put, at this time I side with the interpretation that election as we're discussing it is corporate rather than individualistic. And yes, the Godhead will make His Plan regarding Election work. As @lrs68 essentially said a few posts ago, the Elect lineage has been intact humanely speaking at least from Abraham and onward through history to his Seed - Jesus, YHWH's Chosen One from time eternal.
IOW, the Elect is Christ's Body, and we enter into it by choosing to take hold of His Grace offered to all.
Eh, you chose huh? God gave you to Jesus and no ifs and or buts got inserted into that verse about you choosing anything.
Those given to Jesus WILL come.
Romans 9 verse 18; John 6 verse 44; John 6 verse 65; John 6 verse 37; John 6 verse63; Titus 3 verse5 ~ God has mercy on whom He wants to have mercy, and He hardens whom He wants to harden. No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father. All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out. The Spirit gives life; the flesh profits nothing. He saved us because of His mercy, through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit.
Those given to Jesus WILL come.
Romans 9 verse 18; John 6 verse 44; John 6 verse 65; John 6 verse 37; John 6 verse63; Titus 3 verse5 ~ God has mercy on whom He wants to have mercy, and He hardens whom He wants to harden. No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father. All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out. The Spirit gives life; the flesh profits nothing. He saved us because of His mercy, through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit.
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“The reason I asked the question as I did was to isolate the source of faith”
you were just shown the source of faith
“So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”
Romans 10:17 KJV
“If it is God producing faith, wherever that faith is produced one will find salvation”
yeah whoever accepts the word of the gospel that offers faith from God will find salvation
“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;
but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
Mark 16:15-16 KJV
To be clear brother you seem to be missing the point God is responsible for the gospel that saves us that’s the means by which he saves people it was all Jesus doing because he loves us so you don’t have to wonder if gods responsible for faith or not yes the gospel is of God that’s his way of saving us his way of opening our eyes giving us faith there’s no reason to avoid it
airs just that there’s no secret thing he does extra for some people and not for others the gospel is for all people it’s a double edged sword it leads to salvation but also seals the fate of those who reject him
the source is the gospel what he did to save man is the gospel there’s nothing else to come that’s gonna save us it’s the gospel gods work to save us is the gospel . Faith comes from hearing the gospel of we reject the gospel we aren’t going to have any faith
airs not that one guy already has faith before he hears the gospel and onther doesn’t the source is hearing the message of Jesus and the gospel
“Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; by which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; and that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:”
1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV
No one could believe that and have faith in him doing that for us until they hear it being preached that’s where faith is born hesring the gospel but look what happens after that
Really consider this parable bro regarding what happens when we hear the word
“Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God. ( his word is the seed the source )
Those by the way side are they that hear; ( you see they did hear but ) then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. ( that’s one thing that happens but notice it wasn’t that they couldn’t hear what he said but the enemy had a stronghold in them and snatched the word )
They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away. ( others believe for a while but then temptation gets them sin runs it’s course and they die )
And that which fell among thorns are they, which, when they have heard, go forth, and are choked with cares and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to perfection. ( this group heard but they love the world more than the lords promises )
But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience.”
Luke 8:11-15 KJV
do you notice everyone could hear the word ? That wasn’t the issue but how they responded or what the enemy did having access to thier hearts . It was never tbat they just weren’t able to hear some lives the world more some were competing with the enemy in thier mind others were ensnared by sin and led to thier denise
but you can see there that the source is the word of the gospel and they all hear but only some persisted in faith and bore the fruit for the harvest
The source is the gospel everyone can hear it but how people respond to the message is going to be very different not because that’s what god chose but because that’s what they choose with the god given right to choose life or death that he sets before us
you were just shown the source of faith
“So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”
Romans 10:17 KJV
“If it is God producing faith, wherever that faith is produced one will find salvation”
yeah whoever accepts the word of the gospel that offers faith from God will find salvation
“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;
but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
Mark 16:15-16 KJV
To be clear brother you seem to be missing the point God is responsible for the gospel that saves us that’s the means by which he saves people it was all Jesus doing because he loves us so you don’t have to wonder if gods responsible for faith or not yes the gospel is of God that’s his way of saving us his way of opening our eyes giving us faith there’s no reason to avoid it
airs just that there’s no secret thing he does extra for some people and not for others the gospel is for all people it’s a double edged sword it leads to salvation but also seals the fate of those who reject him
the source is the gospel what he did to save man is the gospel there’s nothing else to come that’s gonna save us it’s the gospel gods work to save us is the gospel . Faith comes from hearing the gospel of we reject the gospel we aren’t going to have any faith
airs not that one guy already has faith before he hears the gospel and onther doesn’t the source is hearing the message of Jesus and the gospel
“Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; by which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; and that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:”
1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV
No one could believe that and have faith in him doing that for us until they hear it being preached that’s where faith is born hesring the gospel but look what happens after that
Really consider this parable bro regarding what happens when we hear the word
“Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God. ( his word is the seed the source )
Those by the way side are they that hear; ( you see they did hear but ) then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. ( that’s one thing that happens but notice it wasn’t that they couldn’t hear what he said but the enemy had a stronghold in them and snatched the word )
They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away. ( others believe for a while but then temptation gets them sin runs it’s course and they die )
And that which fell among thorns are they, which, when they have heard, go forth, and are choked with cares and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to perfection. ( this group heard but they love the world more than the lords promises )
But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience.”
Luke 8:11-15 KJV
do you notice everyone could hear the word ? That wasn’t the issue but how they responded or what the enemy did having access to thier hearts . It was never tbat they just weren’t able to hear some lives the world more some were competing with the enemy in thier mind others were ensnared by sin and led to thier denise
but you can see there that the source is the word of the gospel and they all hear but only some persisted in faith and bore the fruit for the harvest
The source is the gospel everyone can hear it but how people respond to the message is going to be very different not because that’s what god chose but because that’s what they choose with the god given right to choose life or death that he sets before us
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It is loaded and I've seen you play it out and have even discussed some of it with you.
I'll watch your discussion with @Pilgrimshope.
One of the immediate issues is whether or not you'll be discussing faith objectively or subjectively - the ability to be persuaded and believe or what is believed - or both.
I'll watch your discussion with @Pilgrimshope.
One of the immediate issues is whether or not you'll be discussing faith objectively or subjectively - the ability to be persuaded and believe or what is believed - or both.
This is a typical response from someone without understanding. I didn't say I don't personally and intimately believe. I said faith was birthed in me. I live, yet not I; Christ lives in me. It doesn't get any more intimate than this. God didn't believe for me. I certainly believed, but only after God had performed a work in me.
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didn’t God give us free will or the option to choose for ourselves what we would do with life? Choices… we have the choice to accept or reject the offer of eternal life offered by God through the sacrifice of His son, Jesus Christ.
think of it this way; if man had no free will then Adam and Eve would never have disobeyed God by eating the fruit in the Garden and there would have been no need for a Savior. if no free will we would be a bunch of robots.
God wants relationship; therefore he wants us to choose him. We can’t make that choice without free will. We love Him because He first loved us, not because we‘re programmed to do so.
think of it this way; if man had no free will then Adam and Eve would never have disobeyed God by eating the fruit in the Garden and there would have been no need for a Savior. if no free will we would be a bunch of robots.
God wants relationship; therefore he wants us to choose him. We can’t make that choice without free will. We love Him because He first loved us, not because we‘re programmed to do so.
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How dare you speak Biblical truth to those who deny it.
The natural man chooses, he actually DECIDES, to believe foolishness in the FW theology.
Or so they say. I don't believe it myself (their theology). It is foolishness to me!
The world cannot receive Him but they decide any ways. Makes no sense.
But it does make me think of flat earthers for some reason...
The natural man chooses, he actually DECIDES, to believe foolishness in the FW theology.
Or so they say. I don't believe it myself (their theology). It is foolishness to me!
The world cannot receive Him but they decide any ways. Makes no sense.
But it does make me think of flat earthers for some reason...
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