Does Rom 5:18 teach that Christ died for all men without exception ?

[brightfame52]

All the letters are written TO believers that doesn't mean every word is about believers.

First you say 100% is about believers, then it's 97% .. do I hear 95% ... 95% ... going once! going twice!

I'm not wasting anymore of my time.

Have a nice day.

Yeah it does mean that, all the scripture is written to believers and the majority of it about believers. There are things about the non elect, but most about the elect. Like all the Epistles are about the elect, except for obvious exceptions. Like in Romans, its entirely for the elect, but reference to the rejected non elect is mentioned in Rom 11:7 as the rest,and following,

7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear unto this day.

9 And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them:

10 Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway.

These have no hope of salvation, never have and will ! They werent elect.

Then the vessels of wrath God made and fits them to destruction Rom 9:20-22

20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?

21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

Lets hope you arent a vessel of wrath being fitted for destruction. Have a nice day

 

[brightfame52]

Yeah it just says what it says I agree though has nothing to do with me . We are supposed to accept what it says it’s not rocket science or exclusive God sent it to everyone . Basic stuff you don’t need me and I don’t need you to explain anything …. The scripture explains it all

There are a lot of things in scripture you wont see and cant see, however I see them, and witness them.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

There are a lot of things in scripture you wont see and cant see, however I see them, and witness them.

Yeah you must be a chosen one

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Scripture does say Jesus will draw all men to Himself. Also, foreknowledge is given as a reason for God's selection.

Yeah he said he would draw all men to himself by the death he died

“And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me. This he said, signifying what death he should die.”
‭‭John‬ ‭12:32-33‬ ‭KJV‬‬

notice he doesn’t say he’s going to draw only some chosen group to him but everyone by the cross . And then he died that death and sent the gospel out to everyone

 

[sawdust]

Yeah it does mean that, all the scripture is written to believers and the majority of it about believers. There are things about the non elect, but most about the elect. Like all the Epistles are about the elect, except for obvious exceptions. Like in Romans, its entirely for the elect, but reference to the rejected non elect is mentioned in Rom 11:7 as the rest,and following,

7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear unto this day.

9 And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them:

10 Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway.

These have no hope of salvation, never have and will ! They werent elect.

Then the vessels of wrath God made and fits them to destruction Rom 9:20-22

20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?

21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

Lets hope you arent a vessel of wrath being fitted for destruction. Have a nice day

The non-elect, another laughable moment. How do you choose that which is not chosen?

Paul is talking about Israel in these verses not mankind in general Rom.11:7 and he also tells us that eventually all Israel will be saved. Rom.11:25-26

If only you understood predestination then we wouldn't have to suffer your constant errors.

 

[brightfame52]

Instead of Rom 5:18 teaching that Christ died for all without exception, it actually teaches limited atonement because the results following the actions of each head, One head being Adam, and the other Head being Jesus Christ, who we know is the Head of His Body the Church Eph 5:23

For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.

Col 1:18

And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

Now lets look at Rom 5:18 with that truth in mind

Therefore as by the offence of one[Adam] judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one[Jesus Christ] the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

Now the all men Adam represented as head, by his offence as their head, it resulted in their judgment unto condemnation, so even so, the all men Christ represented as Head, the Church, by His righteousness, comprised of His Life of obedience to Gods Moral Law, and His Death as the Just penalty of any one violation of Gods Law, as a result the all men he represented to them came upon Justification of Life, its the free gift of eternal life Rom 6:23

23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

So the results following the actions of each head for those represented determines who the all men are so:

So then as through one trespass [Adam’s sin] there resulted condemnation for all men, even so through one act of righteousness there resulted justification of life to all men.


So the all men in Rom 5:18 b is limited to all men which as a result of Christ's Headship righteousness, it resulted in their Justification of Life !

And we know from other scripture that cannot apply to all men without exception ! What about those who shall never see life ? Jn 3:36

He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Its impossible for any of them to be included in the all men who receive Justification of Life as a result of Christ's act of Righteousness ! F

 

[brightfame52]

The non-elect, another laughable moment. How do you choose that which is not chosen?

Paul is talking about Israel in these verses not mankind in general Rom.11:7 and he also tells us that eventually all Israel will be saved. Rom.11:25-26

If only you understood predestination then we wouldn't have to suffer your constant errors.

Yeah the non elect for Salvation. There is an election of grace in this world, as it was an remnant in Israel, and as in Israel, the rest were blinded, so it is in the world of the Gentiles, there is a remnant according to election of Grace, and the rest of mankind is blinded. And God is the Master Mind of it all, His choice, His will BTW Lets see if you be laughing in that moment of the day of Judgment.

 

[Magenta]

Romans 9 verse 18; John 6 verse 44; John 6 verse 65; John 6 verse 37; John 6 verse63; Titus 3 verse5 ~ God has mercy on whom He wants to have mercy, and He hardens whom He wants to harden. No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father. All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out. The Spirit gives life; the flesh profits nothing. He saved us because of His mercy, through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit.

 

[Dino246]

I usually avoid this topic because I think it’s a waste of time to debate it. I decided to look at the opening post… never have I encountered such an unreasoned rejection of plain Scripture. One must have an agenda beforehand to read Romans 5:18 the way the poster did.

And no, I’m still not interested in arguing about it.

 

[CalledByChrist]

False teaching

The Gospel will be preached to all the world then the end will come.

Belief in the Gospel is how we accept justification. As it is how we accept the LORD.

Not all accept the Gospel, therefore not all are justified. If one accepts Christ, he is justified.


I have no idea how you can possibly claim false teaching when it is biblical knowledge 101.

 

[brightfame52]

@CalledByChrist

The Gospel will be preached to all the world then the end will come.

ok

Belief in the Gospel is how we accept justification. As it is how we accept the LORD.

False teaching

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Christ isnt a intended Saviour, but actual Saviour, and He isnt the Actual Saviour of the Lost.

The Lord Jesus Christ is the savior of ALL mankind. There is no other savior. Those who remain unsaved ("lost") are the ones who reject Him ... they suppress the truth in unrighteousness when the truth is (or was) presented to them. They are without excuse come judgment day.
.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

The entire 5th Chapter of Romans is about the elect, their federal experience under the headship of Adam, and then their Federal experience with Christ

the above statement renders your Post 21 in error ...

According to your statement in Post 21, "those under condemnation cant be justified".

According to your statement in Post 202, "the entire 5th Chapter of Romans is about the elect".

So you've got the "elect" as under condemnation "under the headship of Adam" and then receiving the gift of righteousness "their Federal experience with Christ" in Post 202 ...

yet in Post 21, you flat out stated "those under condemnation cant be justified".

you contradict yourself in your futile attempts to align Scripture to your dogma ...
.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Eph 5:23

For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.

Col 1:18

And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

Now lets look at Rom 5:18 with that truth in mind

Therefore as by the offence of one[Adam] judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one[Jesus Christ] the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

Now the all men Adam represented as head, by his offence as their head, it resulted in their judgment unto condemnation, so even so, the all men Christ represented as Head, the Church, by His righteousness, comprised of His Life of obedience to Gods Moral Law, and His Death as the Just penalty of any one violation of Gods Law, as a result the all men he represented to them came upon Justification of Life, its the free gift of eternal life Rom 6:23

rolleyes ... or we could just read Romans 5:18 in the context within which the Author of Scripture intended the verse be read.

What is written in Ephesians 5:23 is to be understood in the context within which the Author placed it ... Colossians 1:18 is to be understood in the context within which the Author placed it ... Romans 6:23 is to be understood in the context within which the Author placed it.

The Author of Scripture did not intend that the reader take a verse here ... a verse there ... then mold random verses into that which the Author of Scripture did not write.

So the results following the actions of each head for those represented determines who the all men are so:

So then as through one trespass [Adam’s sin] there resulted condemnation for all men, even so through one act of righteousness there resulted justification of life to all men

Again, Rom 5:17 reveals those who receive justification of life:

Romans 5:17-18 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ. ) Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

The word "receive" in Rom 5:17 is translated from the Greek word lambanō which means actively lay hold of to take or receive, to lay hold by aggressively (actively) accepting what is available ... emphasizes the volition (assertiveness) of the receiver - HELPS Word-studies.

In Rom 5:18, the first all refers to all humanity ... all descendants of Adam. The second all refers to that part of the first all who lambanō ... (they actively lay hold of ... they do not reject the gift of righteousness) ... by grace through faith the justified ones are reborn into the Last Adam, Christ.

So the all men in Rom 5:18 b is limited to all men which as a result of Christ's Headship righteousness, it resulted in their Justification of Life !

And we know from other scripture that cannot apply to all men without exception ! What about those who shall never see life ? Jn 3:36

He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

What is written in John 3:36 is corroborated in Romans 5:1 [being justified by faith] ... and further in Rom 5:17 [they which receive [lambanō] abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ].

faith is what actively lays hold of that which God in His grace and mercy gifts to mankind. Those who do not lay hold are the ones who remain under condemnation.
.

 

[Inquisitor]

Im saying what my post said.

Which is what you are saying.

For the majority of people God creates them to send them to hell.

Even worse, God hates them and always has hated them before they were born.

Think of Esau.

This is your doctrine!

 

[sawdust]

Yeah the non elect for Salvation. There is an election of grace in this world, as it was an remnant in Israel, and as in Israel, the rest were blinded, so it is in the world of the Gentiles, there is a remnant according to election of Grace, and the rest of mankind is blinded. And God is the Master Mind of it all, His choice, His will BTW Lets see if you be laughing in that moment of the day of Judgment.

I'll be laughing all right for the joy of the Lord is my strength!

 

[Avery]

It's a Verse that demonstrates the opposite of what Adam's sin did.

By 1 man and his sin ALL HUMANS are born as sinners.

Romans 5:18 means:
By 1 man and His Sacrifice now ALL HUMANS can be Saved.

In mathematics it X's out.

Jesus Sacrifice cancels Adam's sin for those who are Saved.

The Condition Adam bounded humanity by the Sacrifice of Jesus unbounds humanity.

Jesus cancels out Adam is what Romans 5:18 means.

Yes, add John 3:17 to that, “ for God did not send his son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through him might be saved.“. As my mom used to say “all means all“.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Which is what you are saying.

For the majority of people God creates them to send them to hell.

Even worse, God hates them and always has hated them before they were born.

Think of Esau.

This is your doctrine!

what is interesting is that under the dogma of some they believe God hated Esau before Esau was born ... but does God's Word actually say that?

In Romans 9, Paul spoke of the heaviness and continual sorrow concerning his kinsmen according to the flesh (Israelites) – Rom 9:1-4.

Rom 9:10-16 And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac; (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth; ) It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger. As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated. What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid. For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

vs 11-12 – what God told Rebecca before the children were born is revealed in Genesis 25 – two nations are in thy womb ... and the elder shall serve the younger. God did not claim that He would love Jacob or hate Esau before Jacob and Esau were born.

vs 13 – the words Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated were not spoken by God before the children were born, nor were they spoken while Jacob and Esau were alive on the earth. The words were spoke in Malachi ... the last book in the Old Testament, well after many generations had sprung from Jacob and Esau.

From Pulpit Commentary:

“Malachi is not speaking of the predestination of the one brother and reprobation of the other; he is contrasting the histories of the two peoples represented by them … Both nations sinned; both are punished; but Israel by God’s free mercy was forgiven and restored, while Edom was left in the misery which it had brought upon itself by its own iniquity”​

.

 

[brightfame52]

The Lord Jesus Christ is the savior of ALL mankind. There is no other savior. Those who remain unsaved ("lost") are the ones who reject Him ... they suppress the truth in unrighteousness when the truth is (or was) presented to them. They are without excuse come judgment day.
.

He is the Saviour of the saved within mankind, the lost He obviously isnt their Saviour duh

Stop bearing false witness

 

[brightfame52]

the above statement renders your Post 21 in error ...

According to your statement in Post 21, "those under condemnation cant be justified".

According to your statement in Post 202, "the entire 5th Chapter of Romans is about the elect".

So you've got the "elect" as under condemnation "under the headship of Adam" and then receiving the gift of righteousness "their Federal experience with Christ" in Post 202 ...

yet in Post 21, you flat out stated "those under condemnation cant be justified".

you contradict yourself in your futile attempts to align Scripture to your dogma ...
.

The entire 5th chapter of Rom 5 is about the elect and their resultant experience in both their heads, Adam and then Christ. They end up with Justification of life