Does Rom 5:18 teach that Christ died for all men without exception ?

[brightfame52]

@Cameron143

if unbelief is a sin, and Jesus paid for the sins of every person, it has been paid for and God is unrighteous

He only died for the sins of believers.

 

[Cameron143]

@Cameron143



He only died for the sins of believers.

I agree, but those making the claim do not. I was simply pointing out the inconsistency.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

He only died for the sins of believers.

I agree, but those making the claim do not. I was simply pointing out the inconsistency.

Take it up with the Author of Scripture ... God instructs the believer to plant and/or water ... God gives increase to those who do not suppress the truth in unrighteousness:

Matthew 12:31-32 Therefore I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven people, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. And whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.

The ministry of the Holy Spirit is to make known the Lord Jesus Christ ...

John 16:13-14 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

to reject the One Who the Holy Spirit glorifies and shows and makes known is blasphemy against the Spirit which, according to the Lord Jesus Christ will not be forgiven.

... and Cameron143, aren't you the one who claimed in the other thread:

I didn't. It's simply the way the discussion unfolded. And I would never think to question what Jesus has done.

when you state you would "never think to question what Jesus has done" ... does that include that you would "never think to question what Jesus has" said concerning blasphemy against the Spirit ???
.

 

[Cameron143]

Take it up with the Author of Scripture ... God instructs the believer to plant and/or water ... God gives increase to those who do not suppress the truth in unrighteousness:

Matthew 12:31-32 Therefore I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven people, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. And whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.

The ministry of the Holy Spirit is to make known the Lord Jesus Christ ...

John 16:13-14 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

to reject the One Who the Holy Spirit glorifies and shows and makes known is blasphemy against the Spirit which, according to the Lord Jesus Christ will not be forgiven.

... and Cameron143, aren't you the one who claimed in the other thread:





when you state you would "never think to question what Jesus has done" ... does that include that you would "never think to question what Jesus has" said concerning blasphemy against the Spirit ???
.

I'm not questioning Jesus, but I do question your understanding of what the unforgivable sin is. Blasphemy against the Spirit is ascribing the actions of Jesus to Satan and not to the work of the Spirit. Reread the passage and believe what it says. There is nothing about belief in the passage.

 

[LeeLoving]

Take it up with the Author of Scripture ... God instructs the believer to plant and/or water ... God gives increase to those who do not suppress the truth in unrighteousness:

Matthew 12:31-32 Therefore I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven people, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. And whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.

The ministry of the Holy Spirit is to make known the Lord Jesus Christ ...

John 16:13-14 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

to reject the One Who the Holy Spirit glorifies and shows and makes known is blasphemy against the Spirit which, according to the Lord Jesus Christ will not be forgiven.

... and Cameron143, aren't you the one who claimed in the other thread:





when you state you would "never think to question what Jesus has done" ... does that include that you would "never think to question what Jesus has" said concerning blasphemy against the Spirit ???
.

This is not blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is to witness the Holy Spirit do a work (such as a healing, etc.) and then blaspheme against him after. Jesus was working through the Holy Spirit when he did his miracles and he said that speaking against him was forgivable, but speaking against the Spirit was not. This sin cannot be performed today because Jesus is not on the earth to witness him do anything through the Holy Spirit (hence no one can blaspheme against him).

 

[Magenta]

What of 2 Cor 3:17 Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.

Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. Stand firm, then, and do not be encumbered once more by a yoke of slavery. For in Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set you free from the law of sin and death. Now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves to God, the outcome is eternal life. 2 Corinthians 3 verse 17; Galatians 5 verse 1; Romans 8 verse 2; from Romans 6 verse 22

 

[LeeLoving]

What of 2 Cor 3:17 Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.

Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. Stand firm, then, and do not be encumbered once more by a yoke of slavery. For in Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set you free from the law of sin and death. Now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves to God, the outcome is eternal life. 2 Corinthians 3 verse 17; Galatians 5 verse 1; Romans 8 verse 2; from Romans 6 verse 22

(not sure if you're replying to me) but I think Jesus is mentioning a very specific sin. He says "the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven", meaning he is talking about their specific sin and he previously says every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven people. Their specific sin was seeing the Holy Spirit do something and then blaspheming against him.

 

[Magenta]

(not sure if you're replying to me) but I think Jesus is mentioning a very specific sin. He says "the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven", meaning he is talking about their specific sin and he previously says every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven people. Their specific sin was seeing the Holy Spirit do something and then blaspheming against him.

Well, the main verse I gave says the Lord is the Spirit... so people denying the
work of the Holy Spirit of God in their lives really looks like blasphemy to me.
We have a quite a few Pelagian heretics here who do that.

 

[LeeLoving]

Well, the main verse I gave says the Lord is the Spirit... so people denying the
work of the Holy Spirit of God in their lives really looks like blasphemy to me.
We have a quite a few Pelagian heretics here who do that.

I might be wrong, but I think blasphemy has to be intentional. Intentional irreverent words. I think one can "blaspheme against the Holy Spirit" today in that they can say something blasphemous against the Holy Spirit, but Jesus is talking about the specific sin he saw them commit given the context.

Matthew 12:32 King James Version
32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

People were seeing Jesus do miracles through the Holy Spirit, and some blasphemed against the Holy Spirit after seeing the Holy Spirit at work. Unforgivable according to Jesus.

People get this sin wrong all the time and there is a lot of confusion about it.

 

[LeeLoving]

I might be wrong, but I think blasphemy has to be intentional. Intentional irreverent words. I think one can "blaspheme against the Holy Spirit" today in that they can say something blasphemous against the Holy Spirit, but Jesus is talking about the specific sin he saw them commit given the context.

Matthew 12:32 King James Version
32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

People were seeing Jesus do miracles through the Holy Spirit, and some blasphemed against the Holy Spirit after seeing the Holy Spirit at work. Unforgivable according to Jesus.

People get this sin wrong all the time and there is a lot of confusion about it.

Er, whoops. I don't know if he was doing all his miracles through the Holy Spirit, but he said he cast out devils by the Spirit of God.

Matthew 12:28-29 King James Version
28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.
29 Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house.

31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.

I'm pretty sure he means this exact sin that he saw the Pharisees commit.

32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

 

[brightfame52]

Take it up with the Author of Scripture ... God instructs the believer to plant and/or water ... God gives increase to those who do not suppress the truth in unrighteousness:

Matthew 12:31-32 Therefore I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven people, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. And whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.

The ministry of the Holy Spirit is to make known the Lord Jesus Christ ...

John 16:13-14 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

to reject the One Who the Holy Spirit glorifies and shows and makes known is blasphemy against the Spirit which, according to the Lord Jesus Christ will not be forgiven.

... and Cameron143, aren't you the one who claimed in the other thread:





when you state you would "never think to question what Jesus has done" ... does that include that you would "never think to question what Jesus has" said concerning blasphemy against the Spirit ???
.

The sinners Christ died for receive Justification into life Rom 5:18

18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

Thats these right here as well Rom 8:30

30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

 

[GWH]

Unbelief cannot be the unforgivable sin. Everyone who gets saved was once in the state of unbelief, and has been forgiven of it. Further, if unbelief is a sin, and Jesus paid for the sins of every person, it has been paid for and God is unrighteous if He accepts payment for a sin and later employs it as the basis for someone's punishment.

Yes, the only unforgiveable unbelief is apostasy, and that is because such a person is totally depraved (new insight)
and will never again repent of sin per Heb. 6:4-6.

 

[Cameron143]

Yes, the only unforgiveable unbelief is apostasy, and that is because such a person is totally depraved (new insight)
and will never again repent of sin per Heb. 6:4-6.

You should read Matthew 12:28-32 a little more closely. Hebrews 6 doesn't say that falling away is unforgivable; only that those who do cannot be renewed again unto repentance.

 

[Ouch]

Those under condemnation cant be Justified as Per Rom 5:18

18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

They didnt have to believe to receive Justified to life, the Justification of life was the result of what Christ did for them before they were born

Therefore, as through one man’s offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man’s righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life.NKJV

Matthew 28:19-20

King James Version



19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.


Acts 2:38-39
King James Version
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Acts 10:34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:

1 Corinthians 7:18-20
King James Version
18 Is any man called being circumcised? let him not become uncircumcised. Is any called in uncircumcision? let him not be circumcised.

19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

20 Let every man abide in the same calling wherein he was called.

 

[GWH]

You should read Matthew 12:28-32 a little more closely. Hebrews 6 doesn't say that falling away is unforgivable; only that those who do cannot be renewed again unto repentance.

Yes, apostasy is unforgivable = will remain unforgiven because the apostate is totally depraved and so will never again repent.
(I thought y'all tulipists would appreciate that insight.)

 

[GWH]

Matthew 28:19-20

King James Version



19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.


Acts 2:38-39
King James Version
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Acts 10:34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:

1 Corinthians 7:18-20
King James Version
18 Is any man called being circumcised? let him not become uncircumcised. Is any called in uncircumcision? let him not be circumcised.

19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

20 Let every man abide in the same calling wherein he was called.

Yes, God's commandments beginning with His command to accept Jesus as Messiah and Lord
and with Christ's command to love God, oneself and everyone else.

 

[Mem]

I might be wrong, but I think blasphemy has to be intentional. Intentional irreverent words. I think one can "blaspheme against the Holy Spirit" today in that they can say something blasphemous against the Holy Spirit, but Jesus is talking about the specific sin he saw them commit given the context.

Matthew 12:32 King James Version
32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

People were seeing Jesus do miracles through the Holy Spirit, and some blasphemed against the Holy Spirit after seeing the Holy Spirit at work. Unforgivable according to Jesus.

People get this sin wrong all the time and there is a lot of confusion about it.

Can Isaiah5:20 apply to this incidence in Matt12?
-Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who turn darkness to light and light to darkness, who replace bitter with sweet and sweet with bitter.-Is5:20

 

[Cameron143]

Yes, apostasy is unforgivable = will remain unforgiven because the apostate is totally depraved and so will never again repent.
(I thought y'all tulipists would appreciate that insight.)

Again, it doesn't say apostasy is unforgivable. It says apostates cannot be renewed to repentance. This is not the same thing. When Jesus spoke of the unforgivable sin, He spoke of the particular sin of ascribing His work to Satan and not the Spirit.
And I'm not a tulipist. You are. I don't speak about such things, but you interject it into every discussion.

 

[LeeLoving]

Can Isaiah5:20 apply to this incidence in Matt12?
-Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who turn darkness to light and light to darkness, who replace bitter with sweet and sweet with bitter.-Is5:20

I'm not sure to be honest, it seems applicable though.

 

[Mem]

I'm not sure to be honest, it seems applicable though.

I view it the same, and so I don't think that it is a stretch that Jesus is implying that they were calling the Holy Spirit evil, effectively, by calling Him the spirit of Beelzebub, the lying spirit.