Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[sawdust]

False dichotomy. If you owe a debt and I pay it, you received the benefit having done nothing. This is at the heart of grace. What choice did you make when God caused the sun to shine today?

Then why do some not receive the benefit even though Christ paid the debt for all men?

 

[sawdust]

The person wasn't part of the equation. That's how grace works. Still didn't answer the question: what choice did you make when God provided sunshine today?

Chose to get out of bed and meet the day.

 

[Cameron143]

Then why do some not receive the benefit even though Christ paid the debt for all men?

Where does scripture teach that Jesus paid the debt of all men?

 

[Cameron143]

Chose to get out of bed and meet the day.

Even further evidence of God's grace to you by providing all the oxygen you needed to keep breathing. Hallelujah.

 

[GWH]

Where does scripture teach that Jesus paid the debt of all men?

May I suggest you request a Bible with a concordance for Christmas?

 

[Cameron143]

May I suggest you request a Bible with a concordance for Christmas?

Sounds like it should be easy for you to answer. No?

 

[GWH]

Sounds like it should be easy for you to answer. No?

I believe in teaching to fish rather than merely giving a fish.

 

[Cameron143]

I believe in teaching to fish rather than merely giving a fish.

What I hear is...I can't find such a verse.

 

[studier]

How many people for whom the gospel was the power of God unto salvation resisted?

As many as chose to.

 

[sawdust]

Where does scripture teach that Jesus paid the debt of all men?

Really, you need to go there? He died for the "kosmos" Cameron, not a select few. John 1:29 1John 2:2 1John 4:14 There is no doubt in my mind when John uses kosmos he is referring to the whole world. If John thought Christ was only the Saviour of the Elect, it would have been very easy for him to say that plainly.

What you said earlier about it all coming to us by God's grace is true. What you refuse to see is that God only promised believers eternal life. Believing the truth is your responsibility but if left to our own devices it cannot happen which, is why God meets us first with grace and truth. This is what the Calvies/Reformed types fail to see. God does not regenerate you so you can believe, He regenerates you because you have believed. That is His promise to do and He keeps His promise. John 3:16 Grace enabled you to be free for that very reason to respond. How you cannot see the grace of God, which you have no problem understanding can bring a man back to life, but you cannot see that He can momentarily free a man's will for the purpose of being able to give his own response, from his own soul, completely baffles me.

It is no different after we are saved. You don't believe different to me because God caused you to believe what you do, you've made your own choice as to what to believe just as I have and what's more, we will both give an answer for that.

God does not decide who believes and who doesn't believe, His election (choice) is what to do with the believers of this world. You and I have been chosen to be in Christ and to attain the full stature of the Son. Not all believers were chosen for this. Israel was baptized into Moses, not Christ. 1Cor.10:2.

 

[GWH]

What I hear is...I can't find such a verse.

Hint: It is somewhere in the OT and more plentiful in the NT.

 

[Cameron143]

As many as chose to.

That's odd. When I read it, it said the power of God unto salvation, not the power of men.

 

[HeIsHere]

Where does scripture teach that Jesus paid the debt of all men?

Sad days.

 

[Cameron143]

Really, you need to go there? He died for the "kosmos" Cameron, not a select few. John 1:29 1John 2:2 1John 4:14 There is no doubt in my mind when John uses kosmos he is referring to the whole world. If John thought Christ was only the Saviour of the Elect, it would have been very easy for him to say that plainly.

What you said earlier about it all coming to us by God's grace is true. What you refuse to see is that God only promised believers eternal life. Believing the truth is your responsibility but if left to our own devices it cannot happen which, is why God meets us first with grace and truth. This is what the Calvies/Reformed types fail to see. God does not regenerate you so you can believe, He regenerates you because you have believed. That is His promise to do and He keeps His promise. John 3:16 Grace enabled you to be free for that very reason to respond. How you cannot see the grace of God, which you have no problem understanding can bring a man back to life, but you cannot see that He can momentarily free a man's will for the purpose of being able to give his own response, from his own soul, completely baffles me.

It is no different after we are saved. You don't believe different to me because God caused you to believe what you do, you've made your own choice as to what to believe just as I have and what's more, we will both give an answer for that.

God does not decide who believes and who doesn't believe, His election (choice) is what to do with the believers of this world. You and I have been chosen to be in Christ and to attain the full stature of the Son. Not all believers were chosen for this. Israel was baptized into Moses, not Christ. 1Cor.10:2.

So of the first 3 verses you shared, you are suggesting that world means every single human? In 1 John 5:19 says the whole world is under control of the wicked one. Does this mean every person ever born? Are you under the control of the wicked one?

 

[Cameron143]

Sad days.

Perhaps you can show me this plethora of verses that teach this.

 

[studier]

That's odd. When I read it, it said the power of God unto salvation, not the power of men.

I read the verse as you do. It's odd that you would infer otherwise and think human volition usurps God's power rather than accepts or rejects it.

 

[Cameron143]

I read the verse as you do. It's odd that you would infer otherwise and think human volition usurps God's power rather than accepts or rejects it.

Is the gospel the power of God unto salvation for unbelievers?

 

[GWH]

Is the gospel the power of God unto salvation for unbelievers?

The Gospel/grace is the power of God unto salvation IF accepted,
and MFW is the power of God unto just damnation IF salvation/grace/the Gospel is rejected.

 

[Cameron143]

The Gospel/grace is the power of God unto salvation IF accepted,
and MFW is the power of God unto just damnation IF salvation/grace/the Gospel is rejected.

Where do you find if accepted in the verse?

Is Isaiah 55 correct? When God's word goes forth does it always accomplish it's purpose? If the gospel goes forth and it does not result in salvation, was God's purpose accomplished?

 

[Rufus]

As I've done before, I'll leave your discussions of Adam and Even to others. I don't care to discuss your seeds theories. Plus, your continual straw man of saving oneself is not worthy of response anymore.

Hesitantly, if you want to look closely at that section of Scripture and see what it says and doesn't say, I may be game, but I like @GWH is doing am going to attempt to take up the mantle of not dealing with your pejoratives anymore.

"Seeds theory"? So God inspired Moses to write a theory in Gen 3:15, heh?

And man does save himself, since God doesn't! God salvation is very different from the salvation the Good Samaritan rendered to the half-dead crime victim; for God doesn't actually save anyone! He simply provides opportunities to sinners to find and grab unto the life preserver He tossed them before they go down for the count. Some god you FWers bow down to and confess with your forked tongues.