Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[Rufus]

The post is messed up and I am not going to spend time to fix it...

@Cameron143 stated has posted some 60+ scriptures that deal with the estate of the natural fallen man.

And not one states that people cannot believe the Gospel message unless they receive unique, special, divine intervention.

And many are about particular situations and not a universal statement about all humanity.

The chain of God's salvation can easily be seen in Rom 8:29-30. Notice that the "call" is the third item in the chain and precedes faith (justification).

Also, read the Parable of the Banquet in Lk 14 wherein the Master's servant FORCED people to attend since all those who were outwardly invited refused to accept the invitation.

 

[Rufus]

so this means it pleases God to cast to death the wicked?

Only to a twisted, perverse, depraved mind would such a mind even be able to postulate such buffoonery.

 

[studier]

I already answered that previously. Pay attention. Answer the question: What did the Corinthians receive and from whom?

You answered nothing. You simply asserted your use of the verse as substantiating your theology as usual. I've asked you to explain how and why in context. It's a very basic and simple request for a discussion about Scripture. We might even find some agreement. But your proof-texting is loaded with baggage, so I'd like you to explain yourself. Choice is yours.

 

[Rufus]

You answered nothing. You simply asserted your use of the verse as substantiating your theology as usual. I've asked you to explain how and why in context. It's a very basic and simple request for a discussion about Scripture. We might even find some agreement. But your proof-texting is loaded with baggage, so I'd like you to explain yourself. Choice is yours.

Translate: You don't have the first clue what the Corinthians received or from whom they received it.

 

[studier]

You see little need for anything that doesn't agree with you or isn't posted according to your specifications. You still can't have a discussion that doesn't bring in ISMS. I'm sure you study independently, but have a difficult time believing anyone else has this quality in any measure. You say you want to discuss scripture, but are simply unable to do so without labeling other's understanding. If you ever do actually want to discuss ideas, hit me up.

Also, I never said that my understanding isn't in line with the reformed faith. I've actually said that it is. But you have no idea what I actually believe and why. You can't tell me what scripture, other than a couple we discussed, for why I believe as I do. And this is my point all along. My reticence to discuss things with you is that you will always lump what I say into a belief system and dismiss them carte blanche as you and many others have done. What's the point? You aren't truly interested in learning. You aren't truly interested in even learning why I believe as I do.
I ask alot of questions. I begin asking questions to see what someone believes. Later in the discussion I ask questions to see if something in the question has not been considered. Mostly, people just think questions are to put someone on the spot and so rarely answer the question; instead, they give a defense of their position and label your position. Nothing of substance will proceed from such a discussion.

Cut to the chase please. Would you like to discuss any single Scripture or continue to make excuses for not doing so?

Pull one from your friends colored presentations and tell me what it means. Let's see you do some work. I'll respond in kind.

Another suggestion: go back through this lengthy bantering of ours and find the verse this first referenced and explain how and why it supports your view. You told me some posts back that you'd in essence be happy to explain your understanding of a verse and then after I asked you to do so, you started asking me questions and requiring we go back to opinions about the Garden rather than simply explaining the Scripture under discussion. Then you basically started telling me I need you to teach me.

Seriously, take any Scripture from anyone's list and just explain what you think it means. Have your friend do it for you and you can repost it sans colorizing please.

 

[HeIsHere]

Wow.
So...what can we garner from Isaiah 55?
First we can establish that God is active in the affairs of men and employs His word in this activity.
Second, God says that He is the ultimate determiner of what His word accomplishes.

So then you do agree that God determines who will be saved and who will be lost by being the ultimate determiner of salvation?
This means that by His deterministic will passes over some and saves others.

I do find it interesting that the passage begins with...

“Come, all you who are thirsty,
come to the waters;
Isaiah 55

Guess you missed that part uh?

 

[Magenta]

Clearly you don't understand my tagline. I understand very well God's "power of grace". But FWers do NOT understand this power of grace the way you wrote it above. Look at Mr. Studier's recent post wherein he essentially wrote that men are FREE to accept or reject not the only the gospel but the FREEDOM that Christ offers. He believes this "freedom" is given to a sinner AFTER the sinner repents and believes the gospel -- not before as you just wrote. So, which is it: Before so that it sets men free from the power of their sin nature thereby empowering them to make righteous choices...OR is after so that sinners are free (by their own will) to choose beforehand before they're set free by Christ?

Men cannot bring forth good fruit from a bad tree. They just don't get it. They don't want to give up their pet vain philosophies and traditions of man. They trash talk you for months and then say, well, explain yourself. LOL. I have seen what they call explaining their understanding of Scripture. It includes stripping words of their main and plain meanings and also declaring that certain verses do not at all mean what they say, such as 1 Cor 2:14. It is disgusting.

 

[Magenta]

So then you do agree that God determines who will be saved and who will be lost by being the ultimate determiner of salvation?
This means that by His deterministic will passes over some and saves others.

I do find it interesting that the passage begins with...

“Come, all you who are thirsty,
come to the waters;
Isaiah 55

Guess you missed that part uh?

Only those given to Jesus by God can and will come. Did you miss that part???

The lost do not seek after God. Did you miss that part also?

 

[studier]

Translate: You don't have the first clue what the Corinthians received or from whom they received it.

Projection as a defense. Normal m.o.

 

[Cameron143]

Cut to the chase please. Would you like to discuss any single Scripture or continue to make excuses for not doing so?

Pull one from your friends colored presentations and tell me what it means. Let's see you do some work. I'll respond in kind.

Another suggestion: go back through this lengthy bantering of ours and find the verse this first referenced and explain how and why it supports your view. You told me some posts back that you'd in essence be happy to explain your understanding of a verse and then after I asked you to do so, you started asking me questions and requiring we go back to opinions about the Garden rather than simply explaining the Scripture under discussion. Then you basically started telling me I need you to teach me.

Seriously, take any Scripture from anyone's list and just explain what you think it means. Have your friend do it for you and you can repost it sans colorizing please.

I posted it; you display it.
Grace and peace.

 

[Cameron143]

So then you do agree that God determines who will be saved and who will be lost by being the ultimate determiner of salvation?
This means that by His deterministic will passes over some and saves others.

I do find it interesting that the passage begins with...

“Come, all you who are thirsty,
come to the waters;
Isaiah 55

Guess you missed that part uh?

When the word of God was proclaimed...come to the waters...did God not send it forth? In sending it forth, will God accomplish His purpose whereunto He sent it? If it leads to salvation, is this God's purpose in sending it forth? If it doesn't lead to salvation, is this still God's purpose in sending it forth?

 

[Magenta]

Cut to the chase please. Would you like to discuss any single Scripture or continue to make excuses for not doing so?

Are single Scriptures now acceptable? A previous post you made spoke against them.

Your list of reasons for not discussing Scriptures grows... like Pinocchio's nose.

 

[Rufus]

So then you do agree that God determines who will be saved and who will be lost by being the ultimate determiner of salvation?
This means that by His deterministic will passes over some and saves others.

I do find it interesting that the passage begins with...

“Come, all you who are thirsty,
come to the waters;
Isaiah 55

Guess you missed that part uh?

Again, read the Parable of the Great Banquet in Lk 14 and learn about the insufficiency of a mere outward call of the gospel. The gospel invitations reveal the disposition of God's heart and the commands in the bible reveal man's moral/spiritual responsibility to his Creator.

 

[studier]

[Luk 15:17 KJV]
And when he came to himself, he said, How many hired servants of my father's have bread enough and to spare, and I perish with hunger!

Interesting what the circumstances of life can bring a "corpse" to realize.

Nice reference.

 

[Mem]

Projection as a defense. Normal m.o.

That we should have to assume the meaning of a verse seems rather unappetizing, if not outright unpalatable. There's no wonder at your hesitance to partake.

 

[Rufus]

HeIsHere said:


So then you do agree that God determines who will be saved and who will be lost by being the ultimate determiner of salvation?
This means that by His deterministic will passes over some and saves others.

I do find it interesting that the passage begins with...

“Come, all you who are thirsty,
come to the waters;
Isaiah 55

Question: Just what "waters" would that be?

 

[studier]

I posted it; you display it.
Grace and peace.

posted what?

 

[Rufus]

Interesting what the circumstances of life can bring a "corpse" to realize.

Nice reference.

For your info, it's called Divine Providence that has its source in the Divine Will.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Is someone besides God ensuring that His purpose is accomplished?

To know this, you have to know Gods purpose

He certainly employs human agency at times, but from the passage it is clear that God is the one who has determined the purpose that is accomplished. Acts 2:23 is a good example. God determined; men did.

ok. again, what is Gods purpose? Did he not tell us this in John 3, John 5 and John 6? as well as many other places?

 

[studier]

For your info, it's called Divine Providence that has its source in the Divine Will.

With a Determinist foundation of course.