His People He foreknew !

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Mem

Senior Member
Sep 23, 2014
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#22
It seems that "IF" recognizes the possibility that, although the command is an imperative, there is an underlying factor which 'might' work to prevent it.
Which brings to mind my omitted mention of another peculiar cloud formation that accompanied that which I shared earlier, the form of a winged serpent. :unsure:
A couple of letters. I edited to add a thought so that worked out just as well to bring attention to that also. :LOL: Thank you:)
 
Oct 19, 2024
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#23
Rom 11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
Rom 11:2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,
Rom 11:3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.
Rom 11:4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.
Rom 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

Paul is speaking of the Hebrew people in this case.

Which is why Paul said he is an Israelite.

And why he mentions that they were obedient like the Jews who did not bow the knee to Baal.

Paul is saying God did not throw away the nation of Israel.

Act 1:6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
Act 1:7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.

Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
Jer 31:35 Thus saith the LORD, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The LORD of hosts is his name:
Jer 31:36 If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the LORD, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.
Jer 31:37 Thus saith the LORD; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the LORD.

Jer 46:27 But fear not thou, O my servant Jacob, and be not dismayed, O Israel: for, behold, I will save thee from afar off, and thy seed from the land of their captivity; and Jacob shall return, and be in rest and at ease, and none shall make him afraid.
Jer 46:28 Fear thou not, O Jacob my servant, saith the LORD: for I am with thee; for I will make a full end of all the nations whither I have driven thee: but I will not make a full end of thee, but correct thee in measure; yet will I not leave thee wholly unpunished.

The nation of Israel will not depart from being a nation and God always restores Israel.

The kingdom will be restored to Israel with no other operating government.

Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
Rom 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
Rom 11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

Which is why the Bible says all Israel shall be saved when salvation is no longer available to the Gentiles.

Paul is talking about God not giving up on the nation of Israel and for the Gentiles to fear for the Jews who were disobedient were cut off and if they did not continue in goodness they would be cut off.

And for the Gentiles not to be arrogant against Israel for they will all be saved and one day salvation will not be available to Gentiles..

Why would Paul say God would not cast away the saints that He foreknew in the beginning because of course He would not.

But Paul is letting the Gentiles know that God did not cast away the nation of Israel and He has a purpose to save the nation of Israel.

Paul is speaking of the Hebrews that God foreknew and He did not cast them away.

Eze 39:21 And I will set my glory among the heathen, and all the heathen shall see my judgment that I have executed, and my hand that I have laid upon them.
Eze 39:22 So the house of Israel shall know that I am the LORD their God from that day and forward.
Eze 39:23 And the heathen shall know that the house of Israel went into captivity for their iniquity: because they trespassed against me, therefore hid I my face from them, and gave them into the hand of their enemies: so fell they all by the sword.
Eze 39:24 According to their uncleanness and according to their transgressions have I done unto them, and hid my face from them.

Eze 39:25 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Now will I bring again the captivity of Jacob, and have mercy upon the whole house of Israel, and will be jealous for my holy name;
Eze 39:26 After that they have borne their shame, and all their trespasses whereby they have trespassed against me, when they dwelt safely in their land, and none made them afraid.
Eze 39:27 When I have brought them again from the people, and gathered them out of their enemies' lands, and am sanctified in them in the sight of many nations;
Eze 39:28 Then shall they know that I am the LORD their God, which caused them to be led into captivity among the heathen: but I have gathered them unto their own land, and have left none of them any more there.
Eze 39:29 Neither will I hide my face any more from them: for I have poured out my spirit upon the house of Israel, saith the Lord GOD.

This is a future event in which Israel as a nation will always be in the truth and never stray again.

The New Age Christ, antichrist, will negotiate peace in the Middle East resulting in a peace treaty and it will pave the way for all Hebrews to go to Israel for the Gentile nations will cause it to happen.

God will bring Israel to the truth and the Gentiles will rebel against the truth for the people that follow the antichrist.
Salvation is always individual, so we must be careful when interpreting what Paul meant
by using the corporate terms "Israel" and "Gentiles".
 

lrs68

Well-known member
Dec 30, 2024
1,858
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#24
Exactly, Foreknowledge of God to people has always been about God remembering the Hebrew\Jewish People of the Old Testament and Romans 8:29-30 explains the process of how God takes these people He FOREKNEW and transforms them to Sanctification in the image of His Son Yeshua.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
17,650
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#25
I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.

2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,
Obviously speaking of the nation of Israel, the Jews.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
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#27
@tablet123

Paul is speaking of the Hebrew people in this case.
Yes but His foreknown people expands beyond the jews, like when he wrote in Rom 8:28-30


28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

All who will be conformed to the Image of His Son are His people He foreknew. There are many Gentiles included in that group its His Church.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
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692
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#31
So much for thinking we agreed, but hope for unity springs eternal.
Didnt you post this:

In the EPH passage we can see that what the all-loving God predestined was NOT that some souls would be damned, but rather the plan of salvation to elect potentially all humanity, whom He loves and atoned for (1TM 2:3-5), if they exercise their God-given grace of volition to accept His offer of grace IN Christ (2Thes. 2:10).
 
Oct 19, 2024
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#36
Because of what I have posted previously, havent you been reading what I posted ?
Yes, and I thought what you said in posts #1&2 jibed with my understanding of Ephesians, which is:

{{{The doctrine of election can be harmonized with the doctrine of an all-loving God by understanding the meaning of “in Christ” in Ephesians 1:3-14.

1:3, “Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ. For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love he predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will, to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves. In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God’s grace that he lavished on us with all wisdom and understanding. And he made known to us the mystery of his will according to his good pleasure which he purposed in Christ, to be put into effect when the times will have reached their fulfillment—to bring all things in heaven and on earth together under one head, even Christ.

In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will, in order that we, who were the first to hope in Christ, might be for the praise of his glory. And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.”

In the EPH passage we can see that what the all-loving God predestined was NOT that some souls would be damned, but rather the plan of salvation to elect potentially all humanity, whom He loves and atoned for (1Tim. 2:3-5), if they exercise their God-given grace of volition to accept His offer of grace IN Christ (2Thes. 2:10). }}}

And you have not explained why you think what you highlighted is unscriptural.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
7,283
692
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#37
Yes, and I thought what you said in posts #1&2 jibed with my understanding of Ephesians, which is:

{{{The doctrine of election can be harmonized with the doctrine of an all-loving God by understanding the meaning of “in Christ” in Ephesians 1:3-14.

1:3, “Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ. For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love he predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will, to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves. In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God’s grace that he lavished on us with all wisdom and understanding. And he made known to us the mystery of his will according to his good pleasure which he purposed in Christ, to be put into effect when the times will have reached their fulfillment—to bring all things in heaven and on earth together under one head, even Christ.

In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will, in order that we, who were the first to hope in Christ, might be for the praise of his glory. And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.”

In the EPH passage we can see that what the all-loving God predestined was NOT that some souls would be damned, but rather the plan of salvation to elect potentially all humanity, whom He loves and atoned for (1Tim. 2:3-5), if they exercise their God-given grace of volition to accept His offer of grace IN Christ (2Thes. 2:10). }}}

And you have not explained why you think what you highlighted is unscriptural.
Im finished going back and forth, I highlighted a comment that I disagreed with. I never said nothing like that, ever
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
7,283
692
113
#39
FOREKNOWLEDGE OF HIS PEOPLE

So what does it mean when it says “For whom God foreknow Rom 11:2 ?” “Foreknowledge 1 Pet 1:2” is the Greek word from which we get the word “prognosis.” Prognosis is a judgment made beforehand.

Before the foundation of the world, God made a judgment of his people. God took delight in his people Prov 8:31, in Christ. In eternity, God accepted of his people in Christ his Son [Eph 1:6]. God’s foreknowledge of his people is God’s peculiar, merciful, pleasure in his people.

It is because in the mind and purpose of God, when He chose us in his Son [Eph 1:4], knowing the end of what he would do from the beginning. God’s satisfaction with his people, His foreknowledge of us His everlasting love [Jer 31:3] and favor in us is because in the mind and purpose of God we were conformed to Christ, it was done in Christ.

Rom 8:29

29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

. Foreknowledge is God “knowing” His people intimately , loving them distinctly, accepting them in Christ, in the mind and purpose of God in eternity. 2 Tim 1:9

9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

It is this knowledge God did not have of those who will hear these words Matt 7: 23

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
 
Oct 19, 2024
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#40
FOREKNOWLEDGE OF HIS PEOPLE

So what does it mean when it says “For whom God foreknow Rom 11:2 ?” “Foreknowledge 1 Pet 1:2” is the Greek word from which we get the word “prognosis.” Prognosis is a judgment made beforehand.

Before the foundation of the world, God made a judgment of his people. God took delight in his people Prov 8:31, in Christ. In eternity, God accepted of his people in Christ his Son [Eph 1:6]. God’s foreknowledge of his people is God’s peculiar, merciful, pleasure in his people.

It is because in the mind and purpose of God, when He chose us in his Son [Eph 1:4], knowing the end of what he would do from the beginning. God’s satisfaction with his people, His foreknowledge of us His everlasting love [Jer 31:3] and favor in us is because in the mind and purpose of God we were conformed to Christ, it was done in Christ.

Rom 8:29

29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

. Foreknowledge is God “knowing” His people intimately , loving them distinctly, accepting them in Christ, in the mind and purpose of God in eternity. 2 Tim 1:9

9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

It is this knowledge God did not have of those who will hear these words Matt 7: 23

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Rom. 8:29 means that God foreknew who would accept Christ, and He predestined that they would become like Christ.

Ditto Rom. 11:2 & 1Pet. 1:2.

TOP #51: Sadly, only a minority of humanity will be chosen by grace, while most will be hardened. [Rom. 11:2b-10] Whether God causes unbelievers to have hard hearts or allows them to become hardened is debated, because there are Scriptures that seem to support both understandings. Thus a systematic study and harmonization of Scripture must be attempted.

TOP #41: Christians are God’s elect, chosen according to divine foreknowledge. [1Pet. 1:1-2&20 = Rom. 8:28-30] Jesus (in Matt. 24:22-31) also referred to his disciples as elect (cf. Rom. 11:7, 11:28 & 2Tim. 2:10), and Jesus’s crucifixion is connected with God’s foreknowledge by Peter (in Acts 2:23). Paul told Titus that God promised eternal life before the beginning (Tit. 1:2).

Divine foreknowledge is part of omniscience. When affirming this doctrine it must be maintained that God’s foreknowledge does not predetermine a person’s spiritual choice regarding the satisfaction of God’s requirement for salvation or else moral responsibility would be abrogated (cf. 1Tim. 2:3-4 & Matt. 23:37). While God’s love is unconditional (John 3:16, Matt. 5:44&48), His salvation is conditional upon a souls’ repentance (IF a soul repents), which many refuse to do (Matt. 22:14, Acts 28:26-27).

Although it is easier to understand how God could know future human behavior by viewing people as robots than as free moral agents, it is more difficult to explain how God could force people to return His love without abrogating their humanity. If God were to zap the elect in order to force their conversions, then He would need to prevent people from behaving hatefully and thinking evilly, which would make the biblical plan of salvation from sinfulness a farce.