Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[lrs68]

LOL. Because the flesh nature does not include anything to do the mind and reasoning abilities? How ridiculous are you really? And what nature does the natural man have before he is made Spiritually alive in Christ? It is 100% of the the flesh nature. And despite your incredibly inane and even asinine assertion, that includes the mind and reasoning abilities.

Ephesians 4 verses 17-18; Luke 6 verse 43; Jeremiah 10 verse 14 In the futility of their thinking, unbelievers are darkened in their understanding and alienated from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them due to the hardness of their hearts. A diseased tree cannot bear good fruit. Every man is senseless and devoid of knowledge.

There are atheist better morally towards others than Christians because even though the flesh is evil their thoughts tells them this is wrong.

The mind is separate from the body and could function without the body on life support.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Grace is called leading in the following part of Romans:



3. Romans 2:4 teaches that God’s kindness or patience (grace) with sinners is meant to lead them toward repentance, which implies that sinners are able to repent because of God’s leading.

4. Romans 2:5 warns that those who do not repent but instead stubbornly resist God’s leading are storing up wrath against themselves for the day when God’s righteous judgment will be revealed, which implies that God enables sinners to repent–or not (cf. Deut. 30:19).

7. Romans 2:11 teaches that “God does not show favoritism” (cf. Eph. 6:9, Col. 3:25, 1Pet. 1:17), which is how God judges people justly, so the fact that some sinners ignore God’s Gospel indicates that His will or leading is resistible because of MFW.

8. Romans 2:15 teaches that sinful souls have a conscience or awareness of “the requirements of the law”, which may be combined with Romans 1:20 to teach that God’s power and moral nature or will may be perceived via creation and conscience (called natural revelation), thus those unfamiliar with God’s Word in Scripture have no good reason for resisting divine leading and choosing atheism/evil.

also look at where Paul starts there

This sort of leads into the rest

“Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things. But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against them which commit such things.

And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?

Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?

But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭2:1-5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

He then continues explaining how the judgement will happen but notice his address here is for those judging and condemning others for some sin when tbey also have some sin and by doing this they are condemning thier own selves

“Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful. Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven: give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall be given into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭6:36-38‬ ‭KJV‬‬

because they were judging and condemning each other they were actually judging their own selves like Jesus taught paup is trying to get them to realize “ because we all have to face the judgement for our own selves deeds we need to get away from eyeballing everyone else’s deeds and rebuking and judging and forming treacherous opinions of those that God also loves at thier worst

Jesus taught a mediation of course we need to repent of sin and obey him but Paul’s point there are n Roman’s two is about judgement for those who judge and condemn and won’t forgive who show not grace or mercy towards others when they do something wrong.

how we treat others is the same way God is going to treat us

It’s really a message that rings throughout Roman’s it must have been a real serious issue in thier church group

“But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, And every tongue shall confess to God. So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.

Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭14:10-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

We never will have to answer for what the other guys do but we should be looking at our own selves with that microscope regarding our ways and actions because we will truly have to give our account for every deed and word spoken. We can face it without mercy just based on the facts of what we did and said or we can find the truth of the gospel and receive abundant mercy even though our works will come up short.

Mercy for the merciful but judgement for those who judge others

 

[Magenta]

There are atheist better morally towards others than Christians because even though the flesh is evil their thoughts tells them this is wrong.

The mind is separate from the body and could function without the body on life support.

The heart can survive being removed from the body also. The heart is incurably wicked and the seat of man's consciousnesses according to Scripture. With the heart one believes. Scripture says that, you know. So we have this incurably wicked heart unable to submit to God, the man who is hostile in his mind toward Him, and you claim this says nothing about the reasoning abilities of the natural man who suppresses the truth in unrighteousness because he is a lover of darkness and slave to sin? Wow. The fool says in his heart...??? Gosh. You come across as terribly confused. Your assertions are hilarious and have nothing to do with the topic. Perhaps you should start a humour thread.

 

[lrs68]

The heart can survive being removed from the body also. The heart is incurably wicked and the seat of man's consciousnesses according to Scripture. With the heart one believes. Scripture says that, you know. So we have this incurably wicked heart unable to submit to God, the man who is hostile in his mind toward Him, and you claim this says nothing about the reasoning abilities of the natural man who suppresses the truth in unrighteousness because he is a lover of darkness and slave to sin? Wow. The fool says in his heart...??? Gosh. You come across as terribly confused. Your assertions are hilarious and have nothing to do with the topic. Perhaps you should start a humour thread.

The heart is where love for evil begins at and the mind is where reasoning about right from wrong exists at. So very separate from one another. The heart describes natural man and the mind is why God manifests Himself at because it's the place of reasoning right and wrong.

 

[Rufus]

lrs68 said:


Isaiah wrote that our God is the [(only God)] to know the ending. Paul said Jesus is the Alpha and Omega. So if God is both the Beginning and the End that means He knows the in-between of the Beginning and the End or He knows Everything.

So to use the word fortune teller to describe God reveals the lacking of knowledge one truly has when concerning who and what God is.

It reveals their knowledge is from a man made doctrine and not the Holy Spirit of God.

But I just quoted two passages that prove that God's foreknowledge is based on his Prerogative and NOT his Prescience. Your assumption is that foreknowledge can only be possible by God acquiring/gathering/learning knowledge of the Future. And even this nonsense is also extremely wrong-headed precisely because God is omniscient. You reduce God to the status of a mere mortal because He cannot act until he learns from temporal reality -- until he acquires sufficient in space and time! And you have not the foggiest idea how stupid this sounds! God TRANSCENDS ALL his creation, including Time! Nothing in all creation acts as a counselor to God! All His knowledge, wisdom and understanding is eternal in nature and spontaneously, simultaneously and inherently resides in Him.

The same Isaiah also wrote regarding this topic:

Isa 40:13-14
13 Who has understood the mind of the LORD,
or instructed him as his counselor ?
14 Whom did the LORD consult to enlighten him,
and who taught him the right way?
Who was it that taught him knowledge
or showed him the path of understanding?
NIV

These are all rhetorical questions that all require the same negative answer: No one and nothing! Yet, you believe that Time that God created is what teaches him. What instructs him. What enlightens him. What gives him understanding. The above passage is one of the reasons why Paul wrote what he did to the Ephesisans:

Eph 1:11
11 In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will,
ESV

God's will is not contingent on any of his moral creatures' will.

 

[Rufus]

The heart is where love for evil begins at and the mind is where reasoning about right from wrong exists at. So very separate from one another. The heart describes natural man and the mind is why God manifests Himself at because it's the place of reasoning right and wrong.

False Dichotomy! The faculty of mind is an integral and inexticable part of the heart! This faculty is situated in one's heart!

 

[Rufus]

also look at where Paul starts there

This sort of leads into the rest

“Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things. But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against them which commit such things.

And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?

Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?

But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭2:1-5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

He then continues explaining how the judgement will happen but notice his address here is for those judging and condemning others for some sin when tbey also have some sin and by doing this they are condemning thier own selves

“Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful. Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven: give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall be given into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭6:36-38‬ ‭KJV‬‬

because they were judging and condemning each other they were actually judging their own selves like Jesus taught paup is trying to get them to realize “ because we all have to face the judgement for our own selves deeds we need to get away from eyeballing everyone else’s deeds and rebuking and judging and forming treacherous opinions of those that God also loves at thier worst

Jesus taught a mediation of course we need to repent of sin and obey him but Paul’s point there are n Roman’s two is about judgement for those who judge and condemn and won’t forgive who show not grace or mercy towards others when they do something wrong.

how we treat others is the same way God is going to treat us

It’s really a message that rings throughout Roman’s it must have been a real serious issue in thier church group

“But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, And every tongue shall confess to God. So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.

Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭14:10-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

We never will have to answer for what the other guys do but we should be looking at our own selves with that microscope regarding our ways and actions because we will truly have to give our account for every deed and word spoken. We can face it without mercy just based on the facts of what we did and said or we can find the truth of the gospel and receive abundant mercy even though our works will come up short.

Mercy for the merciful but judgement for those who judge others

Even for those who judge in righteousness?

 

[Magenta]

The natural man and fools are characterized as or known for:

1. being wicked (2 Samuel 13:13; Psalm 94:3,8)

2. mockers of God (Psalm 74:22)

3. not understanding their bleak eternal destiny (Psalm 92:6)

4. being rebellious (Psalm 107:17)

5. despising spiritual wisdom (Proverbs 1:7)

6. hating spiritual knowledge (Proverbs 1:22)

7. mockers delighting in mockery (Proverbs 1:22)

8. being wayward and complacent (Proverbs 1:32)

9. being wicked and held up to shame by God (Proverbs 3:33,35)

10. dying for their lack of knowledge (Proverbs 10:21)

11. having hearts that blurt out folly (Proverbs 12:23)

12. detesting the thought to turn away from evil (Proverbs 13:19)

13. bringing harm to their companions (Proverbs 13:20)

14. folly in their heart that is deception (Proverbs 14:8)

15. mockers at making amends for their sins (Proverbs 14:9)

16. known for their folly that only yields folly (Proverbs 14:24)

17. not spreading true [spiritual] knowledge (Proverbs15:7)

18. their folly that brings them punishment (Proverbs 16:22)

19. being ignorant of their wrong-doings (Ecclesiastes 5:1)

20. being unpleasing to God (Ecclesiastes 5:4)

21. having hearts that are in the house of pleasure (Ecclesiastes7:4)

22. their laughter as being meaningless (Ecclesiastes 7:6)

23. their anger residing in their laps (Ecclesiastes 7:9)

24. thinking of themselves as wise counselors but only giving senseless advice (Isaiah 19:11)

25. not being willing to walk in the Way of Holiness (Isaiah 35:8)

26. not knowing God (Jeremiah 4:22)

27. being false prophets (Jeremiah 50:36)

28. being equated with the wicked (1 Samuel 25:25)

please excuse the numerical omission

30. at times for recognizing themselves as being great sinners (1 Samuel 26:21)

31. resentment or envy slaying them (Job 5:2) 31. denying the existence of God (Psalm 14:1; 53:1)

32. their chattering that bring them to ruin (Proverbs 10:10,14)

33. the spreaders of slander (Proverbs 10:18)

34. finding pleasure in evil conduct (Proverbs 10:23)

35. choosing a way that seems right to them and ignoring good advice (Proverbs 12:15)

36. angering quickly (Proverbs 12:16; 20:3; 29:11)

37. exposing their own folly (Proverbs 13:16)

38. being hotheaded and reckless (Proverbs 14:16)

39. having mouths that gush folly (Proverbs 15:2)

40. having mouths that feed on folly (Proverbs 15:14)

41. spurning their father's discipline (Proverbs 15:5)

42. having no desire to get wisdom (Proverbs 17:16)

43. finding no pleasure in understanding (Proverbs 18:2)

44. delighting in airing their own opinions (Proverbs 18:2)

45. having perverse lips (Proverbs 19:1)

46. scorning the wisdom of wise words if the wise speak to them (Proverbs23:9)

47. their proverbs being as useless as a lame man's legs hanging limp (Proverbs 26:7).

48. a dog that returns to its vomit when it repeats its folly (Proverbs 26:11)

49. their provocation which is heavier than stone and sand (Proverbs 27:3)

50. their great reluctance in removing their folly from themselves (Proverbs 27:22)

51. trusting in themselves (Proverbs 28:26)

52. raging and scoffing at the wise man with whom he goes to court (Proverbs 29:9)

53. playing the fool, exalting themselves or planning evil (Proverbs 30:32)

54. walking in the darkness (Ecclesiastes 2:14)

55. folding their hands and bringing ruin to themselves (Ecclesiastes 4:5)

56. their speech pours out many words (Ecclesiastes 5:3)

57. lacking sense and showing everyone how stupid they are (Ecclesiastes 10:13)

58. being consumed by their own lips (Ecclesiastes 10:12)

59. multiplying their own words (Ecclesiastes 10:14)

60. speaking folly (Isaiah 32:6)

61. their minds being busy with evil (Isaiah 32:6)

62. practising ungodliness and spreading error concerning the Lord (Isaiah 32:6)

63. leaving the hungry empty and withholding water from the thirsty (Isaiah 32:6)

64. gaining riches by unjust gains (Jer 17:11)

I wonder if lrs68 has the mental acuity required to recognize man's reasoning ability displayed
in any of these verses... regardless of how stupid men show themselves to be LOL

 

[lrs68]

False Dichotomy! The faculty of mind is an integral and inexticable part of the heart! This faculty is situated in one's heart!

The heart is desire and the yearning for things we want. The mind is where we say those things the heart wants is no good and decisions are made in the heart.

Even the Bible separates the 2 from one another.

You must deny facts and truth because your doctrine is based upon the natural mans heart.

 

[lrs68]

The natural man and fools are characterized as or known for:

1. being wicked (2 Samuel 13:13; Psalm 94:3,8)

2. mockers of God (Psalm 74:22)

3. not understanding their bleak eternal destiny (Psalm 92:6)

4. being rebellious (Psalm 107:17)

5. despising spiritual wisdom (Proverbs 1:7)

6. hating spiritual knowledge (Proverbs 1:22)

7. mockers delighting in mockery (Proverbs 1:22)

8. being wayward and complacent (Proverbs 1:32)

9. being wicked and held up to shame by God (Proverbs 3:33,35)

10. dying for their lack of knowledge (Proverbs 10:21)

11. having hearts that blurt out folly (Proverbs 12:23)

12. detesting the thought to turn away from evil (Proverbs 13:19)

13. bringing harm to their companions (Proverbs 13:20)

14. folly in their heart that is deception (Proverbs 14:8)

15. mockers at making amends for their sins (Proverbs 14:9)

16. known for their folly that only yields folly (Proverbs 14:24)

17. not spreading true [spiritual] knowledge (Proverbs15:7)

18. their folly that brings them punishment (Proverbs 16:22)

19. being ignorant of their wrong-doings (Ecclesiastes 5:1)

20. being unpleasing to God (Ecclesiastes 5:4)

21. having hearts that are in the house of pleasure (Ecclesiastes7:4)

22. their laughter as being meaningless (Ecclesiastes 7:6)

23. their anger residing in their laps (Ecclesiastes 7:9)

24. thinking of themselves as wise counselors but only giving senseless advice (Isaiah 19:11)

25. not being willing to walk in the Way of Holiness (Isaiah 35:8)

26. not knowing God (Jeremiah 4:22)

27. being false prophets (Jeremiah 50:36)

28. being equated with the wicked (1 Samuel 25:25)

please excuse the numerical omission

30. at times for recognizing themselves as being great sinners (1 Samuel 26:21)

31. resentment or envy slaying them (Job 5:2) 31. denying the existence of God (Psalm 14:1; 53:1)

32. their chattering that bring them to ruin (Proverbs 10:10,14)

33. the spreaders of slander (Proverbs 10:18)

34. finding pleasure in evil conduct (Proverbs 10:23)

35. choosing a way that seems right to them and ignoring good advice (Proverbs 12:15)

36. angering quickly (Proverbs 12:16; 20:3; 29:11)

37. exposing their own folly (Proverbs 13:16)

38. being hotheaded and reckless (Proverbs 14:16)

39. having mouths that gush folly (Proverbs 15:2)

40. having mouths that feed on folly (Proverbs 15:14)

41. spurning their father's discipline (Proverbs 15:5)

42. having no desire to get wisdom (Proverbs 17:16)

43. finding no pleasure in understanding (Proverbs 18:2)

44. delighting in airing their own opinions (Proverbs 18:2)

45. having perverse lips (Proverbs 19:1)

46. scorning the wisdom of wise words if the wise speak to them (Proverbs23:9)

47. their proverbs being as useless as a lame man's legs hanging limp (Proverbs 26:7).

48. a dog that returns to its vomit when it repeats its folly (Proverbs 26:11)

49. their provocation which is heavier than stone and sand (Proverbs 27:3)

50. their great reluctance in removing their folly from themselves (Proverbs 27:22)

51. trusting in themselves (Proverbs 28:26)

52. raging and scoffing at the wise man with whom he goes to court (Proverbs 29:9)

53. playing the fool, exalting themselves or planning evil (Proverbs 30:32)

54. walking in the darkness (Ecclesiastes 2:14)

55. folding their hands and bringing ruin to themselves (Ecclesiastes 4:5)

56. their speech pours out many words (Ecclesiastes 5:3)

57. lacking sense and showing everyone how stupid they are (Ecclesiastes 10:13)

58. being consumed by their own lips (Ecclesiastes 10:12)

59. multiplying their own words (Ecclesiastes 10:14)

60. speaking folly (Isaiah 32:6)

61. their minds being busy with evil (Isaiah 32:6)

62. practising ungodliness and spreading error concerning the Lord (Isaiah 32:6)

63. leaving the hungry empty and withholding water from the thirsty (Isaiah 32:6)

64. gaining riches by unjust gains (Jer 17:11)

I wonder if lrs68 has the mental acuity required to recognize man's reasoning ability displayed
in any of these verses... regardless of how stupid men show themselves to be LOL

Yep all natural heart conditions.

Romans 1 even says once man rejects God He gives them a REPROBATE MIND. The heart is already natural and dead to God but in Romans 1 God places the MIND to the same condition because they're separate from one another.

 

[lrs68]

The Bible is always talking about changing the HEART.

The heart is where the true natural man exists at.

This is why God manifests Himself to the mind because it's not like the heart.

 

[Magenta]

Yep all natural heart conditions.

Romans 1 even says once man rejects God He gives them a REPROBATE MIND. The heart is already natural and dead
to God but in Romans 1 God places the MIND to the same condition because they're separate from one another.

With the heart one believes. Scripture says so despite your denials.

And the natural man's mind is already hostile to God and opposed to the Spiritual things of God.

It does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so.

 

[cv5]

The natural man and fools are characterized as or known for:

1. being wicked (2 Samuel 13:13; Psalm 94:3,8)

2. mockers of God (Psalm 74:22)

3. not understanding their bleak eternal destiny (Psalm 92:6)

4. being rebellious (Psalm 107:17)

5. despising spiritual wisdom (Proverbs 1:7)

6. hating spiritual knowledge (Proverbs 1:22)

7. mockers delighting in mockery (Proverbs 1:22)

8. being wayward and complacent (Proverbs 1:32)

9. being wicked and held up to shame by God (Proverbs 3:33,35)

10. dying for their lack of knowledge (Proverbs 10:21)

11. having hearts that blurt out folly (Proverbs 12:23)

12. detesting the thought to turn away from evil (Proverbs 13:19)

13. bringing harm to their companions (Proverbs 13:20)

14. folly in their heart that is deception (Proverbs 14:8)

15. mockers at making amends for their sins (Proverbs 14:9)

16. known for their folly that only yields folly (Proverbs 14:24)

17. not spreading true [spiritual] knowledge (Proverbs15:7)

18. their folly that brings them punishment (Proverbs 16:22)

19. being ignorant of their wrong-doings (Ecclesiastes 5:1)

20. being unpleasing to God (Ecclesiastes 5:4)

21. having hearts that are in the house of pleasure (Ecclesiastes7:4)

22. their laughter as being meaningless (Ecclesiastes 7:6)

23. their anger residing in their laps (Ecclesiastes 7:9)

24. thinking of themselves as wise counselors but only giving senseless advice (Isaiah 19:11)

25. not being willing to walk in the Way of Holiness (Isaiah 35:8)

26. not knowing God (Jeremiah 4:22)

27. being false prophets (Jeremiah 50:36)

28. being equated with the wicked (1 Samuel 25:25)

please excuse the numerical omission

30. at times for recognizing themselves as being great sinners (1 Samuel 26:21)

31. resentment or envy slaying them (Job 5:2) 31. denying the existence of God (Psalm 14:1; 53:1)

32. their chattering that bring them to ruin (Proverbs 10:10,14)

33. the spreaders of slander (Proverbs 10:18)

34. finding pleasure in evil conduct (Proverbs 10:23)

35. choosing a way that seems right to them and ignoring good advice (Proverbs 12:15)

36. angering quickly (Proverbs 12:16; 20:3; 29:11)

37. exposing their own folly (Proverbs 13:16)

38. being hotheaded and reckless (Proverbs 14:16)

39. having mouths that gush folly (Proverbs 15:2)

40. having mouths that feed on folly (Proverbs 15:14)

41. spurning their father's discipline (Proverbs 15:5)

42. having no desire to get wisdom (Proverbs 17:16)

43. finding no pleasure in understanding (Proverbs 18:2)

44. delighting in airing their own opinions (Proverbs 18:2)

45. having perverse lips (Proverbs 19:1)

46. scorning the wisdom of wise words if the wise speak to them (Proverbs23:9)

47. their proverbs being as useless as a lame man's legs hanging limp (Proverbs 26:7).

48. a dog that returns to its vomit when it repeats its folly (Proverbs 26:11)

49. their provocation which is heavier than stone and sand (Proverbs 27:3)

50. their great reluctance in removing their folly from themselves (Proverbs 27:22)

51. trusting in themselves (Proverbs 28:26)

52. raging and scoffing at the wise man with whom he goes to court (Proverbs 29:9)

53. playing the fool, exalting themselves or planning evil (Proverbs 30:32)

54. walking in the darkness (Ecclesiastes 2:14)

55. folding their hands and bringing ruin to themselves (Ecclesiastes 4:5)

56. their speech pours out many words (Ecclesiastes 5:3)

57. lacking sense and showing everyone how stupid they are (Ecclesiastes 10:13)

58. being consumed by their own lips (Ecclesiastes 10:12)

59. multiplying their own words (Ecclesiastes 10:14)

60. speaking folly (Isaiah 32:6)

61. their minds being busy with evil (Isaiah 32:6)

62. practising ungodliness and spreading error concerning the Lord (Isaiah 32:6)

63. leaving the hungry empty and withholding water from the thirsty (Isaiah 32:6)

64. gaining riches by unjust gains (Jer 17:11)

I wonder if lrs68 has the mental acuity required to recognize man's reasoning ability displayed
in any of these verses... regardless of how stupid men show themselves to be LOL

So then what can we conclude?

That the super-determinists are also super- condemners?

 

[Magenta]

So then what can we conclude?

That the super-determinists are also super- condemners?

Super condemnation is your forte. Though you also come across as not liking what Scripture says. At all.

 

[cv5]

Great example of the Fallacy of Equivalency which Megenta recently wrote about either in this thread or in another one. Tell, me, CV, do dogs and cats exercise free will to make choices contrary to their natures? And are dogs and cats moral/spiritual entities? And are dogs and cats made in the image of their Creator? Do dogs and cats make moral/spiritual choices?

Oh there it is again....the "natural man" fallacy.

Already been refuted beyond all refutation. Many times.

 

[lrs68]

With the heart one believes. Scripture says so despite your denials.

And the natural man's mind is already hostile to God and opposed to the Spiritual things of God.

It does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so.

The still small voice is heard and processed by the MIND.

You have it wrong thinking that the heart and mind are connected.

But enjoy your beliefs.

They are comical for sure

 

[Rufus]

The natural man and fools are characterized as or known for:

1. being wicked (2 Samuel 13:13; Psalm 94:3,8)

2. mockers of God (Psalm 74:22)

3. not understanding their bleak eternal destiny (Psalm 92:6)

4. being rebellious (Psalm 107:17)

5. despising spiritual wisdom (Proverbs 1:7)

6. hating spiritual knowledge (Proverbs 1:22)

7. mockers delighting in mockery (Proverbs 1:22)

8. being wayward and complacent (Proverbs 1:32)

9. being wicked and held up to shame by God (Proverbs 3:33,35)

10. dying for their lack of knowledge (Proverbs 10:21)

11. having hearts that blurt out folly (Proverbs 12:23)

12. detesting the thought to turn away from evil (Proverbs 13:19)

13. bringing harm to their companions (Proverbs 13:20)

14. folly in their heart that is deception (Proverbs 14:8)

15. mockers at making amends for their sins (Proverbs 14:9)

16. known for their folly that only yields folly (Proverbs 14:24)

17. not spreading true [spiritual] knowledge (Proverbs15:7)

18. their folly that brings them punishment (Proverbs 16:22)

19. being ignorant of their wrong-doings (Ecclesiastes 5:1)

20. being unpleasing to God (Ecclesiastes 5:4)

21. having hearts that are in the house of pleasure (Ecclesiastes7:4)

22. their laughter as being meaningless (Ecclesiastes 7:6)

23. their anger residing in their laps (Ecclesiastes 7:9)

24. thinking of themselves as wise counselors but only giving senseless advice (Isaiah 19:11)

25. not being willing to walk in the Way of Holiness (Isaiah 35:8)

26. not knowing God (Jeremiah 4:22)

27. being false prophets (Jeremiah 50:36)

28. being equated with the wicked (1 Samuel 25:25)

please excuse the numerical omission

30. at times for recognizing themselves as being great sinners (1 Samuel 26:21)

31. resentment or envy slaying them (Job 5:2) 31. denying the existence of God (Psalm 14:1; 53:1)

32. their chattering that bring them to ruin (Proverbs 10:10,14)

33. the spreaders of slander (Proverbs 10:18)

34. finding pleasure in evil conduct (Proverbs 10:23)

35. choosing a way that seems right to them and ignoring good advice (Proverbs 12:15)

36. angering quickly (Proverbs 12:16; 20:3; 29:11)

37. exposing their own folly (Proverbs 13:16)

38. being hotheaded and reckless (Proverbs 14:16)

39. having mouths that gush folly (Proverbs 15:2)

40. having mouths that feed on folly (Proverbs 15:14)

41. spurning their father's discipline (Proverbs 15:5)

42. having no desire to get wisdom (Proverbs 17:16)

43. finding no pleasure in understanding (Proverbs 18:2)

44. delighting in airing their own opinions (Proverbs 18:2)

45. having perverse lips (Proverbs 19:1)

46. scorning the wisdom of wise words if the wise speak to them (Proverbs23:9)

47. their proverbs being as useless as a lame man's legs hanging limp (Proverbs 26:7).

48. a dog that returns to its vomit when it repeats its folly (Proverbs 26:11)

49. their provocation which is heavier than stone and sand (Proverbs 27:3)

50. their great reluctance in removing their folly from themselves (Proverbs 27:22)

51. trusting in themselves (Proverbs 28:26)

52. raging and scoffing at the wise man with whom he goes to court (Proverbs 29:9)

53. playing the fool, exalting themselves or planning evil (Proverbs 30:32)

54. walking in the darkness (Ecclesiastes 2:14)

55. folding their hands and bringing ruin to themselves (Ecclesiastes 4:5)

56. their speech pours out many words (Ecclesiastes 5:3)

57. lacking sense and showing everyone how stupid they are (Ecclesiastes 10:13)

58. being consumed by their own lips (Ecclesiastes 10:12)

59. multiplying their own words (Ecclesiastes 10:14)

60. speaking folly (Isaiah 32:6)

61. their minds being busy with evil (Isaiah 32:6)

62. practising ungodliness and spreading error concerning the Lord (Isaiah 32:6)

63. leaving the hungry empty and withholding water from the thirsty (Isaiah 32:6)

64. gaining riches by unjust gains (Jer 17:11)

I wonder if lrs68 has the mental acuity required to recognize man's reasoning ability displayed
in any of these verses... regardless of how stupid men show themselves to be LOL

You're on a roll today, Girl! Your post is a keeper! But...you're going to confuse all the FWers with this much info. Besides...all the above are just trivial matters, minor spiritual handicaps which man's mighty "freewill" can easily overcome.

 

[Magenta]

You're on a roll today, Girl! Your post is a keeper! But...you're going to confuse all the FWers with this much info. Besides...
all the above are just trivial matters, minor spiritual handicaps which man's mighty "freewill" can easily overcome.

Don't forget that all this thinking and reasoning that the natural man does has zero to do with
his thinking and reasoning abilities according to our Hebrew roots contributor! I mean besides
the arguments people pose being beyond ridiculous, they might border on hilarious but for the
absolute lack of understanding they portray. And that is just plain sad. Here is some more music...

Psalm 34 verse 7 Hebrews 1 verse 14 The angel of the LORD encamps around those who fear Him, and he delivers them. Are not the angels ministering spirits sent to serve those who will inherit salvation?

 

[Magenta]

Proverbs 19 verse 21 Jeremiah 10 verse 23b ~ Many plans are in a man’s heart, but the purpose of the LORD will prevail. No one who walks directs his own steps.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Even for those who judge in righteousness?

What I’m saying is We aren’t meant to judge other people that’s Jesus job .

We of course make “righteous “ judgements every day about a multitude of things . we aren’t meant to put our judgements on other people is what I’m saying. And it’s really really important because it’s going to return to us the same way

If there’s a perfect person worthy to judge me or you his name is Jesus that’s really part of the doctrine


what Paul’s talking about there is for instance a liar who thinks he has the right to judge an adulterer but really they are both sinners needing repentance and mercy from zgod or they’ll not be saved

or an adulterer who thinks he has the right to judge a thief but really they are both breaking the lords commandments and shouldn’t be judging one another because be sinner isnt more worthy than another is the idea to judge people only Jesus is

“For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.”
‭‭James‬ ‭2:10-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

My point is pauos talking about imperfect people judging other imperfect people and how that’s going to backfire on them in the end I’m not sure sinners judge other sinners righteously

but I do.know Jesus will


“And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭17:30-31‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I think we’d also need to get into “ what exactly is judging someone ? “ to be more clear

But generally consistently in the nt we’re taught as believers not to judge the others to wait for Jesus to do that

“Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, ( we can’t do that part so our judgement is lacking ) and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: ( we don’t know other peoples hearts and minds and inner struggle but he does ) and then shall every man have praise of God.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭4:5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

We simply aren’t worthy to judge others brother we need to recognize our place is actually here

“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; ( not on his judgement seat but brought before it ) that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:10‬ ‭

rather than as the one on the throne judging the peoples deeds ……we’re the ones that have to be judged by the appointed judge of all mankind

Sharing his judgments in the gospel is the way

Im not entirely sure what your meaning by judge righteously, I know provabky some scriptures you are referring to but not what you are meaning when you say judge righteously regarding the subject of not judging and condemning others . Can you explain what judging righteously means when you’re saying it ?