Paul was chief among sinners... but to say Paul kept sinning and was chief among sinners after his conversion is a lie because he would have never been qualified to teach on behalf of Christ. And the children of God are instructed to put away sin out of their lives but not the Christians… the Christians are taught every imaginable contradiction and practice every imaginable contradiction. The children of God do not become instantly perfect but they grow over time like all children do and become more Christ-like over time and a Christ-like nature is not a sinful nature. Any one who says you can be born of God and continue practicing sins leading to death is teaching a false doctrine.
a general reply to the Catholics
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Another of the Cobus sect, hey Rockbysea? Is that flag real, or are you just another South African with some twisted an unbiblical ideas?
We will not be perfect till we see Christ.
"Beloved, we are God's children now, and what we will be has not yet appeared; but we know that when he appearswe shall be like him, because we shall see him as he is." 1 John 3:2
As for now - through a glass darkly. Paul himself wrote that! When Christ returns, then face to face!
"For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known." 1 Cor. 13:12
We will not be perfect till we see Christ.
"Beloved, we are God's children now, and what we will be has not yet appeared; but we know that when he appearswe shall be like him, because we shall see him as he is." 1 John 3:2
As for now - through a glass darkly. Paul himself wrote that! When Christ returns, then face to face!
"For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known." 1 Cor. 13:12
It is not opposite, we are dead in Christ, this flesh shall not inherit the kingdom of God. You have repented and believed the gospel, your flesh is dead on the cross. You have not been glorified yet. You have not been made a judge over humanity yet. While we remain in this earthly tent we are dead in Christ. Without Christ both Paul and myself would be the worst of all sinners. In Christ Paul and myself are mercifully saved from what we deserve.
My writing was to those who claim to have already been glorified and sit as judges over the world condemning humanity. The Catholic Church condemned and executed people for not obeying their teachings, many christians today judge and condemn others for not obeying their teachings. They sit as God and judge the world, they are anathema. They need to repent and deny their own lives take up their crosses and follow Jesus into a sacrificial death for the salvation of humanity. As the religious leaders in the days of Jesus, we have wolves also today.
If you believe you are without sin in the flesh then you deny the truth. "If we say we have no sin, we deceive our selfs, and the truth is not in us" 1John 1:8
Many today are not confessing their sins, but remain in sin and judge and condemn others.
I said there are two deaths: one of man and one of God. You have died in Christ and your life is hidden in Him, when he reveals himself to this age at his second coming, your life will be revealed with him.
Those who refuse to deny their own lives and die in Christ will not be saved.
Those who refuse to die with God , will die with mankind and perish from the presence of God.
None are righteous , no not one, unless we die with Christ we have no hope of salvation. We were all at one time without hope of life, but Christ came and now we have hope of eternal life in Him. "Anyone who seeks to save their lives will lose them" those who sacrifice their lives in Christ will be saved.
This is what I have written and I believe the Holy Spirit has revealed it to me.
If you do not view yourself as the worst of all sinners as Paul did, then you may think others deserve condemnation. I do not view the world in this way, I know I am the worst of all sinners, and so I believe God is capable of saving anyone.
Christ be with you always.
My writing was to those who claim to have already been glorified and sit as judges over the world condemning humanity. The Catholic Church condemned and executed people for not obeying their teachings, many christians today judge and condemn others for not obeying their teachings. They sit as God and judge the world, they are anathema. They need to repent and deny their own lives take up their crosses and follow Jesus into a sacrificial death for the salvation of humanity. As the religious leaders in the days of Jesus, we have wolves also today.
If you believe you are without sin in the flesh then you deny the truth. "If we say we have no sin, we deceive our selfs, and the truth is not in us" 1John 1:8
Many today are not confessing their sins, but remain in sin and judge and condemn others.
I said there are two deaths: one of man and one of God. You have died in Christ and your life is hidden in Him, when he reveals himself to this age at his second coming, your life will be revealed with him.
Those who refuse to deny their own lives and die in Christ will not be saved.
Those who refuse to die with God , will die with mankind and perish from the presence of God.
None are righteous , no not one, unless we die with Christ we have no hope of salvation. We were all at one time without hope of life, but Christ came and now we have hope of eternal life in Him. "Anyone who seeks to save their lives will lose them" those who sacrifice their lives in Christ will be saved.
This is what I have written and I believe the Holy Spirit has revealed it to me.
If you do not view yourself as the worst of all sinners as Paul did, then you may think others deserve condemnation. I do not view the world in this way, I know I am the worst of all sinners, and so I believe God is capable of saving anyone.
Christ be with you always.
Well your imperfections are quite evident comparing me to Cobus who say’s those born of God will die on the spot for making one mistake. Where did I say in my post that the children of God are “perfect”? What you will see in my post is the same as what you see in the scripture. Even Christ said He was not yet “perfected” when He said, “Go ye, and tell that fox, Behold, I cast out devils, and I do cures to day and to morrow, and the third day I shall be perfected.” but He commanded His followers saying, “Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.”
Do you accuse Christ, who said more than I said in my post by commanding His followers to be perfect, of being part of the Cobus sect?
And those scriptures you referenced have nothing to do with perfect conduct but about the children of God when they finally come to their completion.
Do you accuse Christ, who said more than I said in my post by commanding His followers to be perfect, of being part of the Cobus sect?
And those scriptures you referenced have nothing to do with perfect conduct but about the children of God when they finally come to their completion.
The whore religion butchers scriptures like 1Joh 1:8 in order to deny heart purity in a genuine child of God.
Why is it that so many people argue in favour of being able to sin and not surely die and utterly deny the plain words of Jesus?
Jesus said that it is the pure in heart who will see God. Instead of quoting these these deceiver quote 1Joh 1:8 in order to uphold their belief that we cannot be pure in this life.
1Joh 1:8 in context of John teaching on how a sinner initially approaches God seeking reconciliation. We are to approach God with a true heart and a true heart will confess that they have sinned against God. It is only then that the blood of Christ can wash one of their sin.
The Bible teaches...
Pro 28:13 He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy.
John was not denying Proverbs by teaching the opposite. Not at all. John was teaching that the blood of Christ cleanses us on the mandatory condition that we walk in the light. No-one walks in the light by denying they have sin to their account.
1Jn 1:5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
1Jn 1:6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
1Jn 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
1Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1Jn 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
John goes on to teach...
1Jn 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
1Jn 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
1Jn 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
1Jn 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
1Jn 2:5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
1Jn 2:6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.
1Jn 2:7 Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning.
1Jn 2:8 Again, a new commandment I write unto you, which thing is true in him and in you: because the darkness is past, and the true light now shineth.
1Jn 2:9 He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now.
1Jn 2:10 He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him.
One does not keep the commandments of God by sinning in thought, word and deed. No. Rather one keeps the commandments by being set free from the bondage of sin and being cleansed from all unrighteousness. It is in this state that we can love one another. Faith works by love and love is a fulfillment of the law.
Anyone that does not love their brother abides in darkness and there is the occasion to constantly stumble whilst on the other hand those who do love their brother abide in the light and there is no occasion to stumble.
This is why John would write...
1Jn 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
1Jn 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1Jn 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
The children of darkness will quote 1Joh 1:8 in order to ongoing rebellion to God. The children of darkness will also quote Romans 7 and teach that salvation leaves people as wretches.
God's salvation is effectual. God really does set people from their sin and He really does cleanse them of unrighteousness. To deny this is to treat the blood of Christ as common and as having no more power than that of bulls and goats.
Why is it that so many people argue in favour of being able to sin and not surely die and utterly deny the plain words of Jesus?
Jesus said that it is the pure in heart who will see God. Instead of quoting these these deceiver quote 1Joh 1:8 in order to uphold their belief that we cannot be pure in this life.
1Joh 1:8 in context of John teaching on how a sinner initially approaches God seeking reconciliation. We are to approach God with a true heart and a true heart will confess that they have sinned against God. It is only then that the blood of Christ can wash one of their sin.
The Bible teaches...
Pro 28:13 He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy.
John was not denying Proverbs by teaching the opposite. Not at all. John was teaching that the blood of Christ cleanses us on the mandatory condition that we walk in the light. No-one walks in the light by denying they have sin to their account.
1Jn 1:5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
1Jn 1:6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
1Jn 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
1Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1Jn 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
John goes on to teach...
1Jn 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
1Jn 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
1Jn 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
1Jn 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
1Jn 2:5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
1Jn 2:6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.
1Jn 2:7 Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning.
1Jn 2:8 Again, a new commandment I write unto you, which thing is true in him and in you: because the darkness is past, and the true light now shineth.
1Jn 2:9 He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now.
1Jn 2:10 He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him.
One does not keep the commandments of God by sinning in thought, word and deed. No. Rather one keeps the commandments by being set free from the bondage of sin and being cleansed from all unrighteousness. It is in this state that we can love one another. Faith works by love and love is a fulfillment of the law.
Anyone that does not love their brother abides in darkness and there is the occasion to constantly stumble whilst on the other hand those who do love their brother abide in the light and there is no occasion to stumble.
This is why John would write...
1Jn 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
1Jn 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1Jn 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
The children of darkness will quote 1Joh 1:8 in order to ongoing rebellion to God. The children of darkness will also quote Romans 7 and teach that salvation leaves people as wretches.
God's salvation is effectual. God really does set people from their sin and He really does cleanse them of unrighteousness. To deny this is to treat the blood of Christ as common and as having no more power than that of bulls and goats.
You can’t die with God because God is not dead even though the pope carries around a dead Jesus on a bowed crucifix it’s not a true depiction of Christ and this may be where your doctrine of death comes from…. this Vicar of Christ. To get a good description of Christ you will find it in Revelation where it says, "One like the Son of Man, clothed with a garment down to the feet and girded about the chest with a golden band. His head and hair were white like wool, as white as snow, and His eyes like a flame of fire; His feet were like fine brass, as if refined in a furnace, and His voice as the sound of many waters;"
That is not the description of a dead Christ/God on a bowed crucifix but the living Christ... this is the Christ the children of God are alive to not dead to.
The sinful works of the flesh are dead… yes... but the spirit is alive with Christ. The children of God are not dead to Christ while in this earthly tent they are dead to Satan and his ways of rebellion…. they are alive to Christ and His ways and dead to Satan who once held them captive but now they have been set free and are alive in Christ... the same Christ described above not the dead one on the bowed crucifix.
Of course the children of God have not been glorified yet... but they do not continue to rebel against God while they remain in the flesh. Paul was saved from what he deserved and he repented and no longer persecuted followers of Christ … not because he was “dead in Christ” but because he was alive in Christ and living for Christ… living a new way not the old way but imitating Christ.
You're doctrine…. “dead in Christ” and “following Jesus into a sacrificial death” are not scriptural and very dead sounding.
Read all of John and see the big picture…. John does not instruct the children of God who have been born of God to keep sinning but to repent and grow…. That’s why he also says “Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.” A child of God grows over time by the indwelling power of God and has less and less of the sinful nature…. And remember that power comes from the Living One with eyes like a flame of fire and a voice like the sound of many waters. For sure the child of God wont be perfect like all children growing up but he will obey his Father and not sin a sin leading to death and he will always get better and grow over time. The same way God makes the plants grow over time His children grow over time as the sinful nature diminishes and the child becomes more and more like the First Born. But a child of God, (even Jesus Christ who was the First Born), would never say he is perfect which is why you never heard the apostles nor Christ saying they were perfect.
But sinners like to use this against those who expose truth knowing that no one can say while they are in the flesh they are perfect… But the truth is to be used by the children of God... to teach the ways of Christ by example and use Christ’s words and say “Be ye perfect”. But the sinner will say in response, “Ya but nobody is perfect why are you telling others that Christ commands us to be perfect?" Well of course the children of God are not perfect but they are commanded to be perfect which means by the power of God they strive for perfection and they don’t do that by telling themselves and others repeatedly that they are the worst sinners on the planet.
I no longer view myself as the worst of all sinners and neither did Paul when he said that. People are taking that scripture, like they do with all Paul’s writings, right out of context and building false doctrines upon them. Paul’s big chief sins were persecuting followers of Christ. When he called himself chief of sinners was he still persecuting followers of Christ? Was he wrestling with this uncontrollable desire in his flesh to go out and persecute followers of Christ? Of course not! He was a new creation, born anew and walking anew with different desires and aspirations. So obviously he was not the chief sinner on the planet when he made that statement. Those who can't understand simple things like this in proper context I believe are meant to not understand.
Those who say they are the worst sinners on the planet and tell other believers that they too are the worst sinners on the planet will eventually hypnotize themselves and bring themselves and others under the power of their own suggestion and never overcome.... They will become exactly what they believe they are: the worst sinners. And is this not the prevalent tactic used in this satanic world… keep telling children they are bad, useless, no good for nothing and eventually they will believe it and guess what? They become exactly what they are told to believe.
That is not the description of a dead Christ/God on a bowed crucifix but the living Christ... this is the Christ the children of God are alive to not dead to.
The sinful works of the flesh are dead… yes... but the spirit is alive with Christ. The children of God are not dead to Christ while in this earthly tent they are dead to Satan and his ways of rebellion…. they are alive to Christ and His ways and dead to Satan who once held them captive but now they have been set free and are alive in Christ... the same Christ described above not the dead one on the bowed crucifix.
Of course the children of God have not been glorified yet... but they do not continue to rebel against God while they remain in the flesh. Paul was saved from what he deserved and he repented and no longer persecuted followers of Christ … not because he was “dead in Christ” but because he was alive in Christ and living for Christ… living a new way not the old way but imitating Christ.
You're doctrine…. “dead in Christ” and “following Jesus into a sacrificial death” are not scriptural and very dead sounding.
Read all of John and see the big picture…. John does not instruct the children of God who have been born of God to keep sinning but to repent and grow…. That’s why he also says “Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.” A child of God grows over time by the indwelling power of God and has less and less of the sinful nature…. And remember that power comes from the Living One with eyes like a flame of fire and a voice like the sound of many waters. For sure the child of God wont be perfect like all children growing up but he will obey his Father and not sin a sin leading to death and he will always get better and grow over time. The same way God makes the plants grow over time His children grow over time as the sinful nature diminishes and the child becomes more and more like the First Born. But a child of God, (even Jesus Christ who was the First Born), would never say he is perfect which is why you never heard the apostles nor Christ saying they were perfect.
But sinners like to use this against those who expose truth knowing that no one can say while they are in the flesh they are perfect… But the truth is to be used by the children of God... to teach the ways of Christ by example and use Christ’s words and say “Be ye perfect”. But the sinner will say in response, “Ya but nobody is perfect why are you telling others that Christ commands us to be perfect?" Well of course the children of God are not perfect but they are commanded to be perfect which means by the power of God they strive for perfection and they don’t do that by telling themselves and others repeatedly that they are the worst sinners on the planet.
I no longer view myself as the worst of all sinners and neither did Paul when he said that. People are taking that scripture, like they do with all Paul’s writings, right out of context and building false doctrines upon them. Paul’s big chief sins were persecuting followers of Christ. When he called himself chief of sinners was he still persecuting followers of Christ? Was he wrestling with this uncontrollable desire in his flesh to go out and persecute followers of Christ? Of course not! He was a new creation, born anew and walking anew with different desires and aspirations. So obviously he was not the chief sinner on the planet when he made that statement. Those who can't understand simple things like this in proper context I believe are meant to not understand.
Those who say they are the worst sinners on the planet and tell other believers that they too are the worst sinners on the planet will eventually hypnotize themselves and bring themselves and others under the power of their own suggestion and never overcome.... They will become exactly what they believe they are: the worst sinners. And is this not the prevalent tactic used in this satanic world… keep telling children they are bad, useless, no good for nothing and eventually they will believe it and guess what? They become exactly what they are told to believe.
Paul labeled himself chief among sinners due to his humility. I never said he stopped sinning. None of us have on this earth, no matter how pious we pretend to be. That is a pharisaical attitude, if one believes they have reached perfection here, while judging the lives of others. The point is, we all are the chief among sinners. Sin is sin. There is only one sin that is unpardonable, and that is blasphemy of Holy Spirit. All sin has the same wage and all of us are sinners and all of us are guilty. Saying that Paul is the chief among sinners is trying to either glorify him and his life or take the burden off one's own sin and guilt. Paul stated it because he felt the weight of his sin and the fact that it cost Jesus His life. As I said, there is no chief of sinners among the race of mankind. We are all receiving the same end: eternal separation from God and the lake of fire UNLESS we have accepted Christ as our Savior, Lord and King and are seeking His face and will and to obey Him. As Romans 12:1 says, making our bodies living sacrifices unto God. Not once or twice but every single day.
Paul was a great man, but he never sought to be worshipped, yet many make the mistake of worshipping him. Dangerous thing to do, when you consider he was a sinful man, just as we are all sinful creatures.
Paul was a great man, but he never sought to be worshipped, yet many make the mistake of worshipping him. Dangerous thing to do, when you consider he was a sinful man, just as we are all sinful creatures.
So then it is percentages we are disagreeing about. Your statement is that no doctrine is 100%, like you are in some way agreeing with me. For me: Every doctrine skips the one and only perfection we are told to strive for and claims to strive to perfect the things God said He would perfect. Those claiming perfection show themselves ignorant of God and warm in the mouth of the Lord. The world serves self, God's love serves others, never self; striving to live God's love for us as our guide for how to love others is the only perfection we are told to strive for. All threats and condemnations are man's putting words in God's mouth.
My only points, if you'd go back and look, is that 1. to attack Catholics on here and say that they are the only ones who are abusive and mean is false, as there are many professing believers on here in different denominations that are harsh and cruel and abusive; 2. you cannot regulate worship, as God looks at the heart and worship is about spirit and truth; 3. to attack one Christian church as being the evilest of all churches isn't right, as not all churches can profess to be obeying God's word 100% (Catholics are a form of Christianity, in case many don't know this); and 4. people must be careful of worshiping other people, as all of us are flawed and sinful, and only Christ, God and Holy Spirit deserve our praise and worship and prayers.
I hesitate greatly when people say that I am 'agreeing' with them. If I really agreed with someone, I would come out and say, "You're right. I agree with you." Just saying.
I hesitate greatly when people say that I am 'agreeing' with them. If I really agreed with someone, I would come out and say, "You're right. I agree with you." Just saying.
mystdancer50: You are preaching the self perfection of Christians and that is something the God said we were incapable of doing yet you preach Paul as having done so.
Rockbysea: To those whom the Lord has revealed Himself, know their sins as sins they never noticed before and because they stand now on the surety of God rather then faith in God, make the once unnoticed as monumental and ourselves so in need of God's mercy.
Rockbysea: To those whom the Lord has revealed Himself, know their sins as sins they never noticed before and because they stand now on the surety of God rather then faith in God, make the once unnoticed as monumental and ourselves so in need of God's mercy.
1. I can only deal with the situation that present themselves to me as they present themselves to me and it is arrogant of you to dictate an expansion of topic to your determinations. Start your own posts!
2. I never insinuated a regulating of worship as that would be the regulating done by denominations, something I stand against and you are here justifying. You are confused here!
3. I find no Church to be following the Bible without divine interpretation so let me be clear! Every denomination is deceived by their leaders; Adding to the bible in any way is sin...
4. Finally something I can agree with!
2. I never insinuated a regulating of worship as that would be the regulating done by denominations, something I stand against and you are here justifying. You are confused here!
3. I find no Church to be following the Bible without divine interpretation so let me be clear! Every denomination is deceived by their leaders; Adding to the bible in any way is sin...
4. Finally something I can agree with!
With the new Bible study programs it becomes really easy to post a plethora of verses like you are saying something but it is wise to screen and clarify that others might see more than search, copy and paste with an, I should not have to explain each one, air of arrogance. Though you are right about love if you are taking about the same level of love God has for us. If you are taking about love as defined by human dictionary's (A good feeling) I would have to disagree again.