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Cameron143

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Yes, but that is because Jesus paid our ransom according to the law.

As for Christians getting a blanket exemption from sin, that is only if they confess and repent of them. If you look at Moses' law it explains precisely how to offer up a trespass offering or a peace offering. Hebrews says that Jesus offered Himself up once for all, that doesn't mean that we only need to confess and repent once. It means that same sacrifice will be good for every time we need to confess and repent.

Some teach that if you confessed and repented 20 years ago you are good even if today you are living in sin. If you are living in sin there is no repentance. Hebrews is very clear about dogs returning to their vomit, Reuben pleading for an inheritance, and ground that is near a curse.
You keep going back to Moses when we have One greater than Moses. Christ did for us what the law could not do.
 

ZNP

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You keep going back to Moses when we have One greater than Moses. Christ did for us what the law could not do.
I keep going back to the Bible. Hebrews is the New Testament. Matthew is the New Testament.

You cannot understand that Jesus is an atoning sacrifice without going to the Law to know what that means.

You cannot understand that Jesus is our Passover without going to the Law to see what that means.

Luke is the New Testament.

You keep trying to make it seem like Jesus destroyed the law when He told you clearly to not think that.

I go back to Moses because Hebrews, which tells us that Jesus is greater than Moses also said

Hebrews 3:5 "And Moses verily was faithful in all his house, as a servant, for a testimony of those things which were to be spoken after;"

I go back to Moses because Hebrews, the book telling us that Jesus is greater than Moses also told us

Hebrews 8:5 Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.
 

Cameron143

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I keep going back to the Bible. Hebrews is the New Testament. Matthew is the New Testament.

You cannot understand that Jesus is an atoning sacrifice without going to the Law to know what that means.

You cannot understand that Jesus is our Passover without going to the Law to see what that means.

Luke is the New Testament.

You keep trying to make it seem like Jesus destroyed the law when He told you clearly to not think that.

I go back to Moses because Hebrews, which tells us that Jesus is greater than Moses also said

Hebrews 3:5 "And Moses verily was faithful in all his house, as a servant, for a testimony of those things which were to be spoken after;"

I go back to Moses because Hebrews, the book telling us that Jesus is greater than Moses also told us

Hebrews 8:5 Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.
Right...you go to the shadow of things. That was my point.
I never said Jesus destroyed the law. By fulfilling it He actually established the law. But you seem to be putting yourself back under the law.
I don't get up every day and have a set of requirements to fulfill. I merely submit myself to Christ and walk in the Spirit. In doing so, and as long as I do so, I am fulfilling the law as Christ lives in me. I don't worry about whether I am doing this right or this wrong; I simply live in the presence of God. It is only as I walk in my own strength that sin ever enters in to the equation. But even when I stray, it is the Spirit who brings conviction and restoration. It's all God and zero law. Perhaps there is more to true spirituality than you have come to know.
 

ZNP

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Right...you go to the shadow of things. That was my point.
I never said Jesus destroyed the law. By fulfilling it He actually established the law. But you seem to be putting yourself back under the law.
I don't get up every day and have a set of requirements to fulfill. I merely submit myself to Christ and walk in the Spirit. In doing so, and as long as I do so, I am fulfilling the law as Christ lives in me. I don't worry about whether I am doing this right or this wrong; I simply live in the presence of God. It is only as I walk in my own strength that sin ever enters in to the equation. But even when I stray, it is the Spirit who brings conviction and restoration. It's all God and zero law. Perhaps there is more to true spirituality than you have come to know.
I don't either have a set of requirements to fulfill, but if my conscience bothers me I confess and repent. It is zero law when it comes to being forgiven, or being restored.

But the law has not been done away with, only the ordinances. It is like the law of gravity, we can overcome it with the law of aerodynamics, but just because we have airplanes does not mean we don't have gravity.
 

DeanM

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Christians are no longer under the law. They are in Christ and are no longer under condemnation. You may suffer chastening or lose eternal benefits as a result of your failure to keep the law by walking in the Spirit, but a Christian will not be judged as to his guilt before God concerning the law
So the Jews who dont accept Christ are still under the law of Moses? They may think they are but they sure dont act like it. Sacrifices stopped when?
 

ZNP

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All who aren't in Christ remain under the law. This is why they are still under condemnation.
Therefore the covenant with Moses is still in force.

The law leads us to Christ as the only way to the Father, but as long as people are being led to the Lord the Old covenant has not been done away with.

Many think that because the sacrifices of bulls and goats are done away with the covenant is done away, but that is not true, the bulls and goats were a shadow of Jesus Christ. He is the reality. This does not mean we are under the law or that we are to keep the ordinances which were against us. It means that the covenant with the Jews made by Moses has not been done away with. Their punishment was according to that covenant and their return to the land of Israel was also according to that covenant. Many of the Jews will receive Jesus as the Messiah after the two witnesses are killed and raised, that also will be according to the covenant.
 

Cameron143

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Therefore the covenant with Moses is still in force.

The law leads us to Christ as the only way to the Father, but as long as people are being led to the Lord the Old covenant has not been done away with.

Many think that because the sacrifices of bulls and goats are done away with the covenant is done away, but that is not true, the bulls and goats were a shadow of Jesus Christ. He is the reality. This does not mean we are under the law or that we are to keep the ordinances which were against us. It means that the covenant with the Jews made by Moses has not been done away with. Their punishment was according to that covenant and their return to the land of Israel was also according to that covenant. Many of the Jews will receive Jesus as the Messiah after the two witnesses are killed and raised, that also will be according to the covenant.
That's a false conclusion. The law was established in Christ's fulfillment of it. The covenant was done away with when all the terms of the covenant were fulfilled.
 

ZNP

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That's a false conclusion. The law was established in Christ's fulfillment of it. The covenant was done away with when all the terms of the covenant were fulfilled.
Jesus said He didn't come to destroy the law but fulfill it. What is the difference?

Suppose I tell you that you have to do your homework first and then you can go out to play. When you do your homework you have fulfilled it. You didn't destroy it. All those who receive Jesus Christ as savior are now free from the Mosaic covenant, but those who haven't are still in the age of grace. You don't get forever to finish, there is a time limit.
 

ZNP

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How exactly does that back up your claim that in 70AD the Mosaic covenant with the Jews was terminated and that all the prophecies in Revelation about the tribulation were fulfilled?
 

Cameron143

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Jesus said He didn't come to destroy the law but fulfill it. What is the difference?

Suppose I tell you that you have to do your homework first and then you can go out to play. When you do your homework you have fulfilled it. You didn't destroy it. All those who receive Jesus Christ as savior are now free from the Mosaic covenant, but those who haven't are still in the age of grace. You don't get forever to finish, there is a time limit.
No Gentiles have ever been under the Mosaic covenant unless they were proselytes. The Mosaic covenant was only made with the nation Israel.
 

ZNP

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No Gentiles have ever been under the Mosaic covenant unless they were proselytes. The Mosaic covenant was only made with the nation Israel.
Yes, but that is not the claim we are debating.

The question is whether or not God's covenant with the Jews ended in 70 AD when the temple was destroyed.
 

Cameron143

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Yes, but that is not the claim we are debating.

The question is whether or not God's covenant with the Jews ended in 70 AD when the temple was destroyed.
The nation Israel could not longer fulfill the terms of the covenant. But again, if you don't acknowledge that the book of Revelation is talking about the covenant begun in Deuteronomy, one can believe all manner of things. I do need to address your earlier post to show the error in your interpretation of Isaiah 65, but that requires a longer and more involved answer. But if one never accepts that the old covenant is no longer in existence, it's pointless anyway.
 

ZNP

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The nation Israel could not longer fulfill the terms of the covenant. But again, if you don't acknowledge that the book of Revelation is talking about the covenant begun in Deuteronomy, one can believe all manner of things. I do need to address your earlier post to show the error in your interpretation of Isaiah 65, but that requires a longer and more involved answer. But if one never accepts that the old covenant is no longer in existence, it's pointless anyway.
to say the old covenant is done away is too simplistic. It depends on what you are talking about. Israel still has a covenant with God, that has not been done away. The clock is ticking and they must received Jesus as the Christ, the Son of God who is Lord of all. I consider the entire Old testament as their covenant and prophecies from Jeremiah 49 are being fulfilled this year, so of course the covenant is still being fulfilled.
 

Cameron143

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to say the old covenant is done away is too simplistic. It depends on what you are talking about. Israel still has a covenant with God, that has not been done away. The clock is ticking and they must received Jesus as the Christ, the Son of God who is Lord of all. I consider the entire Old testament as their covenant and prophecies from Jeremiah 49 are being fulfilled this year, so of course the covenant is still being fulfilled.
They only covenant they can receive Christ under is the new covenant.
 

ZNP

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They only covenant they can receive Christ under is the new covenant.
The old covenant promised the Messiah would come and provided many prophecies where they could confirm whether or not it was the Messiah. Some of those prophecies point to His first coming like Isaiah 53 and some point to His second coming.
 

studier

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I saw the original the other day and thought of you immediately as you tuned me into Benny Johnson last Summer. Ha ha cheers, this is actually tuning into big news and going quite viral, your boy Benny might have just destroyed AOC's presidential ambitions. Praise Jesus how the truth destroys the liars. Carpetbaggers and grifters, such is the democrat party.

cc: @ZNP

Perfect line in this video - "Communist central casting".

For anyone with a sense of intuition this could be seen in the early times of her casting. She was an absolute nobody being made out to be somebody. It's all casting and marketing with puppet-masters in the background.

Every season that comes upon us is one horror show after another in these days. Just the fact that such as her and the previous couple of liberal women can get close to the POSTUS stage shows how messed-up we are as a nation.