Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

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Lamar

Lamar

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Cameron143 said:
but that in order to be redeemed he must have every aspect of his being restored. This would include his heart, his mind, and, consequently, his will.
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Restore to what?

What is God restoring our will to? Is He restoring it to a free will that some
Magenta said:
He saved us not because of anything we had done. That would include we are not saved because we chose to believe.

But oh how well I know the free will crowd contradicts this. It is baked into their vain man-exalting theology.
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You sound bitter.

Are you not among the chosen few?

What difference does it make if the unchosen masses are befuddled, it is their fate. What harm are they doing?

Let them enjoy the fleeting moments before Judgement Day with their false hopes of mercy.

Proverbs 31:6-7

Give strong drink unto him that is ready to perish, and wine unto those that be of heavy hearts.

Let him drink, and forget his poverty, and remember his misery no more.
 
Lamar

Lamar

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GWH said:
Paradoxical means there are two truths that seem contradictory, but are not;
when each is understood correctly, they may be harmonized,
so yes, God is both sovereign and permissive--which truth the tulipists think is contradictory,
but it isn't!

It is the reason:

God is just (2Thes. 1:6a, cf. Rom. 3:25-26 & 9:14, Deut. 32:4, Psa. 36:6, Luke 11:42, Rev. 15:3). All explanations of reality and interpretations of Scripture should conform to this certitude: “The Lord is righteous in all his ways, and holy in all his works.” (Psa. 145:17) The Judge is just. It would be better not to attempt an explanation of God’s Word than to state one that impugns God’s justice and love for all people (Joel 2:13, John 3:16).

Even the wrath of God is an expression of His love. Hebrews 12:4-11 offers the clue for harmonizing these two themes. This passage indicates that divine wrath is intended as discipline: to teach people to repent of their hatefulness or faithlessness (Pro. 3:12, Isa. 33:14-15 Rev. 3:19) before they die, after which divine wrath will be experienced justly without the opportunity for repentance.

If a righteous explanation cannot be found for a passage, then it should be considered as historical or descriptive of what occurred rather than as pedagogical or prescriptive of how people should behave. Of course, because God is loving and just, He does not tempt, trick, confuse or otherwise contribute to anyone’s sinfulness. On the contrary, God must be doing all that He can do without abrogating justice or volition (MFW) to influence people not to be deceived and become self-condemned (Jam. 1:13-17, Tit. 3:11, Isa. 45:19).

This realization should steer us away from the problematic opinion (a la Augustine via John Calvin) that God predestines most people for hell and lead us to affirm moral free will as a paradoxical fact (Deut. 30:19). It is paradoxical, because it affirms both that God is sovereign and that God chooses not to control moral thinking, because doing so would nullify human responsibility for sin, making the biblical revelation of salvation based on repentance irrelevant and absurd.
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I believe we agree on this issue but what is paradoxical about a sovereign being giving free will to His creation?

I see no contradictory here.
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

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Lamar said:
Restore to what?

What is God restoring our will to? Is He restoring it to a free will that some

You sound bitter.

Are you not among the chosen few?

What difference does it make if the unchosen masses are befuddled, it is their fate. What harm are they doing?

Let them enjoy the fleeting moments before Judgement Day with their false hopes of mercy.

Proverbs 31:6-7

Give strong drink unto him that is ready to perish, and wine unto those that be of heavy hearts.

Let him drink, and forget his poverty, and remember his misery no more.
Click to expand...
He is restoring the heart and mind to what it was before sin entered the world. When the heart and mind are restored, the will always follows.
 
Lamar

Lamar

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Cameron143 said:
Don't know. Haven't studied TULIP. I can tell you that most people don't understand depravity. Which parts of TULIP do you disagree with and why?
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One - I do not believe you have not studied TULIP.

Two - I disagree with all of TULIP.

Three - Since you claim to have not studied TULIP it would make more sense for you to study the subject on your on. I would just be talking over your head.
 
Lamar

Lamar

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Cameron143 said:
He is restoring the heart and mind to what it was before sin entered the world. When the heart and mind are restored, the will always follows.
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That is not what you wrote.

You wrote of restoring man's "will".

What will man's will be when it is restored.
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

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Lamar said:
One - I do not believe you have not studied TULIP.

Two - I disagree with all of TULIP.

Three - Since you claim to have not studied TULIP it would make more sense for you to study the subject on your on. I would just be talking over your head.
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I never cared to talk about TULIP so don't think I'll be studying it.
What do you disagree with concerning TULIP?
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

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Lamar said:
That is not what you wrote.

You wrote of restoring man's "will".

What will man's will be when it is restored.
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It's exactly what I wrote. Your reading comprehension is very low. Read again slowly...mind and heart restored and CONSEQUENTLY the will. That word consequently means as a result of; hence, the restoration of the heart and mind result in the restoration of the will.
 
sawdust

sawdust

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Lamar said:
I believe we agree on this issue but what is paradoxical about a sovereign being giving free will to His creation?

I see no contradictory here.
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I agree. It seems to me the only way freedom can exist is because of authority. No authority results in chaos not freedom ergo, only absolute authority can result in absolute freedom.
 
K

Kroogz

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Lamar said:
Proverbs 31:6-7

Give strong drink unto him that is ready to perish, and wine unto those that be of heavy hearts.

Let him drink, and forget his poverty, and remember his misery no more.
Click to expand...
The calvies wouldn't give them that much mercy.

They are perishing, and couldn't get a drop of mercy from God or the calvies.
 
I

Inquisitor

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sawdust said:
I agree. It seems to me the only way freedom can exist is because of authority. No authority results in chaos not freedom ergo, only absolute authority can result in absolute freedom.
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"only absolute authority can result in absolute freedom"?

Seems to be a contradiction.
 
Magenta

Magenta

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Lamar said:
You sound bitter.

Are you not among the chosen few?

What difference does it make if the unchosen masses are befuddled, it is their fate. What harm are they doing?

Let them enjoy the fleeting moments before Judgement Day with their false hopes of mercy.

Proverbs 31:6-7

Give strong drink unto him that is ready to perish, and wine unto those that be of heavy hearts.

Let him drink, and forget his poverty, and remember his misery no more.
Click to expand...
Are you not chosen? Again I am sorry to hear you speak as if you were not called out of the world. Are you really not part of the ecclesia??? Such a tragedy! Are you here seeking guidance or do you hope to teach others from that place of still walking in darkness? I do have a heart for the lost, which is why I spent so many years testifying to them and still do when they come here. It is also known as the great commission. Do you ignore it? May I suggest these videos? I often recommend them to newcomers to the faith or those seeking.

^ Gospel of John is often recommended as a great place to start reading the Bible.
This movie is a word-for-Word portrayal of John's gospel.

Also, please check out the Alpha Course.




There are 10 videos total, answering a lot of questions about faith, Christianity historically and in the modern
world, the estate of man, and God's design for humans. I hope you watch them. They could benefit you greatly .:)
 
R

Rufus

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studier said:
You forgot "from the foundation of the world".

I think my take on your take was better - it goes better with TULIP - the non-elect can't read because they're corpses.
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No, they can't understand because they're corpses. And God did decree there eternal state in eternity.
 
Magenta

Magenta

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Rufus said:
No, they can't understand because they're corpses. And God did decree there eternal state in eternity.
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There is so much hatred concerning the Spiritual things of God from some of these free willers. I wonder why that is.
 
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