Don't Eat What God Hates. But Why?

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Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
There is a list of things that are considered unclean in the old covenant laws, and food was included. I'm convinced myself that the Word of God says that all foods are clean, even the pig. What defiles a person is the evil that produces out of the heart of a man, not what goes into a man.
The verse you quoted is about a pharisee hand washing ritual and not about food at all.

Mattithyah 15:2-3, "Why do Your disciples transgress the traditions of the elders? For they do not wash their hands when they eat. But He answered, and said to them: And why do you transgress the Laws of Yahweh by your traditions?"

Mattithyah 15:17, "Do you not yet understand that whatever enters in at the mouth goes into the stomach, and then is cast out in elimination?"

But is we keep readin we see the meaning of the PARABLE:

Mark 7:17, " But when He had left the people and entered the house, His disciples asked Him about the parable."

Mattithyah 15:15, "But Kepha spoke, and said to Him; Explain this parable to us."

Kepha is Peter, so if all foods were cleansed why did Kepha years later still not eat unclean food?

Acts 10:14, "But Kepha said; By no means, Ruler, for I have never eaten anything that is common or unclean."

Because Mark & and Matt 15 were not about food but a pharisee hand washing ritual:

Mattithyah 15:20, "These are the things which defile a man--but to eat with unwashed hands does not defile a man."

As Acts 10 was not about food either:

Acts 10:28, "And he said to them; You yourselves are aware how it is not Lawful for a Yahdai to associate with one of another nation, or to enter his house; but Yahweh has shown me that I must not call any man common or unclean."

So I see no precedent set anywhere in Scripture by Yahweh (Father) or Yahshua (Messiah) that cancel out clean/unclean.
 
S

Spokenpassage

Guest
First let's talk about Romans, it's clear that food is clean, but to those who still think it's unclean, it is unclean.

Now the religious leaders did impose the ritual of washing of hands, but in the statement Jesus made He didn't refer to man's law, instead He proclaimed that anything that goes into the body doesn't defile a person. Now if it were true that Jesus just spoke about man's religion, He would have stated that 'anything that man considers unclean isn't unclean'....no, instead He makes it clear that anything that goes into the body is not what defiles a person, but what comes out of their heart.
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
First let's talk about Romans, it's clear that food is clean, but to those who still think it's unclean, it is unclean.

Now the religious leaders did impose the ritual of washing of hands, but in the statement Jesus made He didn't refer to man's law, instead He proclaimed that anything that goes into the body doesn't defile a person. Now if it were true that Jesus just spoke about man's religion, He would have stated that 'anything that man considers unclean isn't unclean'....no, instead He makes it clear that anything that goes into the body is not what defiles a person, but what comes out of their heart.
Mark 7:5 Then the Pharisees and scribes asked Him; Why do Your disciples not walk according to the tradition of the elders, but eat bread with unwashed hands? 6 He answered, and said to them: Well has Isayah prophesied of you hypocrites--as it is written: This people honors Me with their lips, but their heart is far from Me. 7 But in vain do they worship Me, teaching as doctrine the commandments of men. 8 For laying aside the Law of Yahweh, you hold the tradition of men! 9 Then He said to them: How well you reject the Law of Yahweh, so that you may keep your own tradition!"

Mattithyah 15:2-3, "Why do Your disciples transgress the traditions of the elders? For they do not wash their hands when they eat. But He answered, and said to them: And why do you transgress the Laws of Yahweh by your traditions?"


He did mention this.

And He did explain the PARABLE:

Mark 7:17, " But when He had left the people and entered the house, His disciples asked Him about the parable."

Mattithyah 15:15, "But Kepha spoke, and said to Him; Explain this parable to us."
Mattithyah 15:20, "These are the things which defile a man--but to eat with unwashed hands does not defile a man."

unwashed hands

I will re-post the entire study, please check it out and tell me what you think?
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
Added words to the revealed greek text have led many to something that is not Scripture.

The case of added words and a parable vol 1

"Thus Jesus declared all foods clean"

Mark 7:1-23, "Then the Pharisees and certain scribes came together to Him, having come from Yerusalem. 2 And when they saw some of His disciples eating bread with defiled-that is to say, unwashed--hands, they found fault. 3 (Now the Pharisees, and the Yahdaim generally, never eat without washing their hands, holding the tradition of the elders. 4 And when they come from the marketplaces, they do not eat unless they wash. And many other traditions they observe, such as the ritual washing of cups, pots, bronze utensils, and beds.) 5 Then the Pharisees and scribes asked Him; Why do Your disciples not walk according to the tradition of the elders, but eat bread with unwashed hands? 6 He answered, and said to them: Well has Isayah prophesied of you hypocrites--as it is written: This people honors Me with their lips, but their heart is far from Me. 7 But in vain do they worship Me, teaching as doctrine the commandments of men. 8 For laying aside the Law of Yahweh, you hold the tradition of men! 9 Then He said to them: How well you reject the Law of Yahweh, so that you may keep your own tradition! 10 For Mosheh said: Honor your father and your mother; and: Whoever curses father or mother, let him be put to death; 11 But you say; If a man will say to his father or mother: Anything of mine which might have benefited you is qorban (that is, a gift set apart for Yahweh)-- 12 You excuse him from doing what he is obligated to do for his father and his mother; 13 Making the Laws of Yahweh of no effect through your ctradition you have handed down! And many other similar things you do. 14 And when He had called all the people to Him, He said to them: Everyone, listen to Me and understand! 15 There is nothing from outside a man, that entering into him can defile him; but the things which come out of him, those are things which defile the man. 16 If any man has ears to hear, let him hear! 17 But when He had left the people and entered the house, His disciples asked Him about the parable. 18 He said to them; Are you also without understanding? Do you not perceive that whatever enters a man from outside cannot defile him, 19 Because it does not enter into his heart but his stomach, and then into the toilet as all food is cleansed out? 20 Then He said: That which comes out of the man, that defiles the man; 21 For from within--out of the heart of men, dfrom his mind--proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, 22 Thefts, lust, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, and foolishness-- 23 All these evil things come from within, and defile the man."

Mark 7:1-23,

1 Then the Pharisees and certain scribes came together to Him, having come from Yerusalem.

2 And when they saw some of His disciples eating bread with defiled-that is to say, unwashed--hands, they found fault.

3 (Now the Pharisees, and the Yahdaim generally, never eat without washing their hands, holding the tradition of the elders.

4 And when they come from the marketplaces, they do not eat unless they wash. And many other traditions they observe, such as the ritual washing of cups, pots, bronze utensils, and beds.)

5 Then the Pharisees and scribes asked Him; Why do Your disciples not walk according to the tradition of the elders, but eat bread with unwashed hands?

So in context the topic is about a "hand washing tradition," food is not even a topic of the debate. Also for a little bit of Scriptual understanding, this "hand washing" is not using soap, it is a pharisee ritual in which one uses specified silver pichers (also specified by pharisee law) and pours water over the left hand, then the right hand, and again, over the left hand, then the right hand, and according to some pharisee this must be done a third time. But the tradition is not over yet, no, now one would say a "prayer" thanking the "Creator" for commanding the ritual. Thing is, you will not find a single Scripture commanding this ritual, yet the pharisees enforced this as if it was law.

6 He answered, and said to them: Well has Isayah prophesied of you hypocrites--as it is written: This people honors Me with their lips, but their heart is far from Me.

7 But in vain do they worship Me, teaching as doctrine the commandments of men.

8 For laying aside the Law of Yahweh, you hold the tradition of men!

9 Then He said to them: How well you reject the Law of Yahweh, so that you may keep your own tradition!

So clearly Yahshua the Messiah rebukes them for not only making their own "laws" but actually casting aside the Laws of Yahweh. Since foods neing clean or unclean is a common understand attached to this passage, let us consider if food Laws are man made or if the Creator made these Laws.

Genesis 7:1-2, "Then Yahweh said to Noah: Come into the ark, you and all your household, for I have seen you righteous before Me in this generation. You shall take with you seven pairs of every clean animal, a male and his female; two of animals that are unclean, a male and his female;"

Leviticus 11:1-2, "And Yahweh spoke to Mosheh and Aaron, saying to them: Speak to the children of Israyl, saying; These are the animals you may eat among all the beasts upon the land" 43-44, "You shall not make yourselves abominable with any creature that moves about on the ground. Do not defile yourselves by means of them, nor be made unclean by them. I am Yahweh your Heavenly Father. You shall therefore consecrate and sanctify yourselves, and you shall be holy; for I am holy. Neither shall you defile yourselves with any creature that moves about on the ground." 46-47, "This is the Law of the animals, and the birds, and every living thing that moves in the waters, and every creature that moves about on the ground. You must distinguish between the unclean and the clean--between the animal that may be eaten, and the animal that may not be eaten."

We can see these Laws literally came directly from the mouth of Yahweh, so when Messiah said: "How well you reject the Law of Yahweh, so that you may keep your own tradition!" It is clear He is not rebuking them for telling people to follow Yahweh's food Laws, but for their pharisee hand washing "law."

Malakyah 3:6-7, "For I am Yahweh, I change not; therefore you sons of Yaaqob are not consumed. Ever since the days of your fathers you have turned away from My ordinances, and have not kept them. Return to Me, and I will return to you! says Yahweh of hosts. But you said; How will we return?"

Luke 16:17, "But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one yodh of the Law to fail."

10 For Mosheh said: Honor your father and your mother; and: Whoever curses father or mother, let him be put to death;

11 But you say; If a man will say to his father or mother: Anything of mine which might have benefited you is qorban (that is, a gift set apart for Yahweh)--

12 You excuse him from doing what he is obligated to do for his father and his mother;

13 Making the Laws of Yahweh of no effect through your ctradition you have handed down! And many other similar things you do.

More evidence of the pharisees adding their own laws to the people why excusing themselves from following Yahweh;s Law.

14 And when He had called all the people to Him, He said to them: Everyone, listen to Me and understand!

15 There is nothing from outside a man, that entering into him can defile him; but the things which come out of him, those are things which defile the man.

16 If any man has ears to hear, let him hear!

17 But when He had left the people and entered the house, His disciples asked Him about the parable.

Because Messiah say: "nothing from outside a man, that entering into him can defile him" many that want to reject Yahweh;s food Laws say see I can eat! But when did context of Scripture not matter? In context the entire passage is about eating with "unwashed--hands." Can we completely roemove it from its context and expect to get the true meaning? Also if you consider verse 17, "His disciples asked Him about the parable," yet "all things are clean food" is taught as doctrine, not as parable........Again in context vesrse 17, parable. SO Meswsiah proceeds to explain further:

18 He said to them; Are you also without understanding? Do you not perceive that whatever enters a man from outside cannot defile him,

19 Because it does not enter into his heart; mind, but his stomach, and then into the toilet as all food is eliminated?

19 For it doesn’t go into their heart but into their stomach, and then out of the body.” (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods clean.)

Now this is where the deception comes in, as you see I have shown verse 19 translated 2 different ways. Which one is correct? The second translation is the much more common translation, here is a short list of translations that match the second translation (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods clean): New International Version, New Living Translation, English Standard Version, New American Standard Bible, Holman Christian Standard Bible, NET Bible, GOD'S WORD Translation, English Revised Version, Weymouth New Testament.

We will look at the original language, but first I want to mention again, CONTEXT, can we somehow go from the whole topic being about a hand washing ritual and unclan animals not even being in the discussion to unclean animals are now food?




The first thing you will notice is the words, "In saying this, Jesus declared all foods clean," are completely absent. Before moving on, I want to ask, why did someone feel the need to forge words into the text that are not there. Is it ok to just add words wherever I want? Of course not.

19 Because it does not enter into his heart but his stomach, and then into the toilet (856) as all food is cleansed out (2511)?

19 For it doesn’t go into their heart but into their stomach, and then out of the body.” (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods clean.)

856 - aphedrón
aphedrón: a place of sitting apart, i.e. a privy, drain
Original Word: ἀφεδρών, ῶνος, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: aphedrón
Phonetic Spelling: (af-ed-rone')
Short Definition: a drain, latrine
Definition: a drain, latrine
Word Origin - from apo and hedraios
Definition - a place of sitting apart, i.e. a privy, drain

2511 - katharizó
katharizó: to cleanse
Original Word: καθαρίζω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: katharizó
Phonetic Spelling: (kath-ar-id'-zo)
Short Definition: I make clean
Definition: I cleanse, make clean, literally, ceremonially, or spiritually, according to context.
Word Origin - from katharos
Definition - to cleanse

20 Then He said: That which comes out of the man, that defiles the man;

21 For from within--out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders,

22 Thefts, lust, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, and foolishness--

23 All these evil things come from within, and defile the man."

No this is not about pork, it is about the pharisee making a show they are holy with their appearances, but Messiah is saying evil is that which should be guarded against.

This exact same account is also detailed in Mattithyah 15, and this is also shown there:

Mattithyah 15:2-3, "Why do Your disciples transgress the traditions of the elders? For they do not wash their hands when they eat. But He answered, and said to them: And why do you transgress the Laws of Yahweh by your traditions?"

Mattithyah 15:17, "Do you not yet understand that whatever enters in at the mouth goes into the stomach, and then is cast out in elimination?"

But is we keep readin we see the meaning of the PARABLE:

Mark 7:17, " But when He had left the people and entered the house, His disciples asked Him about the parable."

Mattithyah 15:15, "But Kepha spoke, and said to Him; Explain this parable to us."

Mattithyah 15:20, "These are the things which defile a man--but to eat with unwashed hands does not defile a man."

So in Mattithyah the parable is fully explained, yet in Mark it is not, is it possibe that is why those false words were added to Mark 7:19? If they were added to Mattithyah 15, it would have been a contradiction, but Mark having not being fully explained, it left the door open?
 
R

Richie_2uk

Guest
See what everyone's different religious beliefs does? It cause friction, causes derailment, causes division. Who is right? who is wrong? Why? what's? When? and how? Causes Doubt, and in some cases causes war. Shall we for peace sake, agree to disagree?

All you people are defending your religious beliefs, your own thoughts, and your own understanding about the word of God. That's great in a sense if you have the true confirmation from God, but in this thread all I see is religions going head to head with disagreements and defusion.

Lets end this for peace. God is good, and lets all focus what God is saying, and not what man thinks.
 
J

jkalyna

Guest
​Let's make up and say cheese. :)
 

Attachments

S

Spokenpassage

Guest
I thought I was trying to answer your question Richie? My first post was Romans 14 if you want to check it out.

Now Hizakya, I found Greek that has the parentheses in Mark that states that all foods are clean, what Greek are you using to defend your statement?
 
R

Richie_2uk

Guest
But I can't see it happening. No doubt there will be someone who will come back with a comment to point score with teh last person. its a ongoing thing on cc. people just cant get along, no matter what religious backgrounds or belief's they have.
I pray for calm, and pray for peace with you guys.

I admit, I put my hands up, I did a silly thing by trusting my ORIGINAL QUESTION to people. I now trust God to answer my questions I have about God. thank you all anyways.
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
Yeremyah 16:19-21, "O Yahweh, my strength and my fortress, my refuge in the day of affliction, the Gentiles will come to You from the ends of the earth, and will say: Surely our fathers have inherited nothing but lies and vanity, powerless gods, of no use at all! Do men make gods for themselves? Yes, but they are powerless! Therefore behold, I will make them to know--this time I will teach them My power and might; and they will know that My Name is Yahweh!"

Zephanyah 3:9, "Yes, at that time I will return to the peoples a pure language, so that all of them may call on the Name of Yahweh, and serve Him with one accord."

Ephesians 4:13-15, "Until we all come to the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge the Son of Yahweh has, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fullness of Messiah. No longer are we to be children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, by which they lie in wait to deceive. Instead, speaking the truth in love, we may grow up in all things unto Him Who is our Head--Messiah."
 
D

danschance

Guest
Added words to the revealed greek text have led many to something that is not Scripture.

The case of added words and a parable vol 1

"Thus Jesus declared all foods clean"

Mark 7:1-23, "Then the Pharisees and certain scribes came together to Him, having come from Yerusalem. 2 And when they saw some of His disciples eating bread with defiled-that is to say, unwashed--hands, they found fault. 3 (Now the Pharisees, and the Yahdaim generally, never eat without washing their hands, holding the tradition of the elders. 4 And when they come from the marketplaces, they do not eat unless they wash. And many other traditions they observe, such as the ritual washing of cups, pots, bronze utensils, and beds.) 5 Then the Pharisees and scribes asked Him; Why do Your disciples not walk according to the tradition of the elders, but eat bread with unwashed hands? 6 He answered, and said to them: Well has Isayah prophesied of you hypocrites--as it is written: This people honors Me with their lips, but their heart is far from Me. 7 But in vain do they worship Me, teaching as doctrine the commandments of men. 8 For laying aside the Law of Yahweh, you hold the tradition of men! 9 Then He said to them: How well you reject the Law of Yahweh, so that you may keep your own tradition! 10 For Mosheh said: Honor your father and your mother; and: Whoever curses father or mother, let him be put to death; 11 But you say; If a man will say to his father or mother: Anything of mine which might have benefited you is qorban (that is, a gift set apart for Yahweh)-- 12 You excuse him from doing what he is obligated to do for his father and his mother; 13 Making the Laws of Yahweh of no effect through your ctradition you have handed down! And many other similar things you do. 14 And when He had called all the people to Him, He said to them: Everyone, listen to Me and understand! 15 There is nothing from outside a man, that entering into him can defile him; but the things which come out of him, those are things which defile the man. 16 If any man has ears to hear, let him hear! 17 But when He had left the people and entered the house, His disciples asked Him about the parable. 18 He said to them; Are you also without understanding? Do you not perceive that whatever enters a man from outside cannot defile him, 19 Because it does not enter into his heart but his stomach, and then into the toilet as all food is cleansed out? 20 Then He said: That which comes out of the man, that defiles the man; 21 For from within--out of the heart of men, dfrom his mind--proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, 22 Thefts, lust, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, and foolishness-- 23 All these evil things come from within, and defile the man."

Mark 7:1-23,

1 Then the Pharisees and certain scribes came together to Him, having come from Yerusalem.

2 And when they saw some of His disciples eating bread with defiled-that is to say, unwashed--hands, they found fault.

3 (Now the Pharisees, and the Yahdaim generally, never eat without washing their hands, holding the tradition of the elders.

4 And when they come from the marketplaces, they do not eat unless they wash. And many other traditions they observe, such as the ritual washing of cups, pots, bronze utensils, and beds.)

5 Then the Pharisees and scribes asked Him; Why do Your disciples not walk according to the tradition of the elders, but eat bread with unwashed hands?

So in context the topic is about a "hand washing tradition," food is not even a topic of the debate. Also for a little bit of Scriptual understanding, this "hand washing" is not using soap, it is a pharisee ritual in which one uses specified silver pichers (also specified by pharisee law) and pours water over the left hand, then the right hand, and again, over the left hand, then the right hand, and according to some pharisee this must be done a third time. But the tradition is not over yet, no, now one would say a "prayer" thanking the "Creator" for commanding the ritual. Thing is, you will not find a single Scripture commanding this ritual, yet the pharisees enforced this as if it was law.

6 He answered, and said to them: Well has Isayah prophesied of you hypocrites--as it is written: This people honors Me with their lips, but their heart is far from Me.

7 But in vain do they worship Me, teaching as doctrine the commandments of men.

8 For laying aside the Law of Yahweh, you hold the tradition of men!

9 Then He said to them: How well you reject the Law of Yahweh, so that you may keep your own tradition!

So clearly Yahshua the Messiah rebukes them for not only making their own "laws" but actually casting aside the Laws of Yahweh. Since foods neing clean or unclean is a common understand attached to this passage, let us consider if food Laws are man made or if the Creator made these Laws.

Genesis 7:1-2, "Then Yahweh said to Noah: Come into the ark, you and all your household, for I have seen you righteous before Me in this generation. You shall take with you seven pairs of every clean animal, a male and his female; two of animals that are unclean, a male and his female;"

Leviticus 11:1-2, "And Yahweh spoke to Mosheh and Aaron, saying to them: Speak to the children of Israyl, saying; These are the animals you may eat among all the beasts upon the land" 43-44, "You shall not make yourselves abominable with any creature that moves about on the ground. Do not defile yourselves by means of them, nor be made unclean by them. I am Yahweh your Heavenly Father. You shall therefore consecrate and sanctify yourselves, and you shall be holy; for I am holy. Neither shall you defile yourselves with any creature that moves about on the ground." 46-47, "This is the Law of the animals, and the birds, and every living thing that moves in the waters, and every creature that moves about on the ground. You must distinguish between the unclean and the clean--between the animal that may be eaten, and the animal that may not be eaten."

We can see these Laws literally came directly from the mouth of Yahweh, so when Messiah said: "How well you reject the Law of Yahweh, so that you may keep your own tradition!" It is clear He is not rebuking them for telling people to follow Yahweh's food Laws, but for their pharisee hand washing "law."

Malakyah 3:6-7, "For I am Yahweh, I change not; therefore you sons of Yaaqob are not consumed. Ever since the days of your fathers you have turned away from My ordinances, and have not kept them. Return to Me, and I will return to you! says Yahweh of hosts. But you said; How will we return?"

Luke 16:17, "But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one yodh of the Law to fail."

10 For Mosheh said: Honor your father and your mother; and: Whoever curses father or mother, let him be put to death;

11 But you say; If a man will say to his father or mother: Anything of mine which might have benefited you is qorban (that is, a gift set apart for Yahweh)--

12 You excuse him from doing what he is obligated to do for his father and his mother;

13 Making the Laws of Yahweh of no effect through your ctradition you have handed down! And many other similar things you do.

More evidence of the pharisees adding their own laws to the people why excusing themselves from following Yahweh;s Law.

14 And when He had called all the people to Him, He said to them: Everyone, listen to Me and understand!

15 There is nothing from outside a man, that entering into him can defile him; but the things which come out of him, those are things which defile the man.

16 If any man has ears to hear, let him hear!

17 But when He had left the people and entered the house, His disciples asked Him about the parable.

Because Messiah say: "nothing from outside a man, that entering into him can defile him" many that want to reject Yahweh;s food Laws say see I can eat! But when did context of Scripture not matter? In context the entire passage is about eating with "unwashed--hands." Can we completely roemove it from its context and expect to get the true meaning? Also if you consider verse 17, "His disciples asked Him about the parable," yet "all things are clean food" is taught as doctrine, not as parable........Again in context vesrse 17, parable. SO Meswsiah proceeds to explain further:

18 He said to them; Are you also without understanding? Do you not perceive that whatever enters a man from outside cannot defile him,

19 Because it does not enter into his heart; mind, but his stomach, and then into the toilet as all food is eliminated?

19 For it doesn’t go into their heart but into their stomach, and then out of the body.” (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods clean.)

Now this is where the deception comes in, as you see I have shown verse 19 translated 2 different ways. Which one is correct? The second translation is the much more common translation, here is a short list of translations that match the second translation (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods clean): New International Version, New Living Translation, English Standard Version, New American Standard Bible, Holman Christian Standard Bible, NET Bible, GOD'S WORD Translation, English Revised Version, Weymouth New Testament.

We will look at the original language, but first I want to mention again, CONTEXT, can we somehow go from the whole topic being about a hand washing ritual and unclan animals not even being in the discussion to unclean animals are now food?




The first thing you will notice is the words, "In saying this, Jesus declared all foods clean," are completely absent. Before moving on, I want to ask, why did someone feel the need to forge words into the text that are not there. Is it ok to just add words wherever I want? Of course not.

19 Because it does not enter into his heart but his stomach, and then into the toilet (856) as all food is cleansed out (2511)?

19 For it doesn’t go into their heart but into their stomach, and then out of the body.” (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods clean.)

856 - aphedrón
aphedrón: a place of sitting apart, i.e. a privy, drain
Original Word: ἀφεδρών, ῶνος, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: aphedrón
Phonetic Spelling: (af-ed-rone')
Short Definition: a drain, latrine
Definition: a drain, latrine
Word Origin - from apo and hedraios
Definition - a place of sitting apart, i.e. a privy, drain

2511 - katharizó
katharizó: to cleanse
Original Word: καθαρίζω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: katharizó
Phonetic Spelling: (kath-ar-id'-zo)
Short Definition: I make clean
Definition: I cleanse, make clean, literally, ceremonially, or spiritually, according to context.
Word Origin - from katharos
Definition - to cleanse

20 Then He said: That which comes out of the man, that defiles the man;

21 For from within--out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders,

22 Thefts, lust, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, and foolishness--

23 All these evil things come from within, and defile the man."

No this is not about pork, it is about the pharisee making a show they are holy with their appearances, but Messiah is saying evil is that which should be guarded against.

This exact same account is also detailed in Mattithyah 15, and this is also shown there:

Mattithyah 15:2-3, "Why do Your disciples transgress the traditions of the elders? For they do not wash their hands when they eat. But He answered, and said to them: And why do you transgress the Laws of Yahweh by your traditions?"

Mattithyah 15:17, "Do you not yet understand that whatever enters in at the mouth goes into the stomach, and then is cast out in elimination?"

But is we keep readin we see the meaning of the PARABLE:

Mark 7:17, " But when He had left the people and entered the house, His disciples asked Him about the parable."

Mattithyah 15:15, "But Kepha spoke, and said to Him; Explain this parable to us."

Mattithyah 15:20, "These are the things which defile a man--but to eat with unwashed hands does not defile a man."

So in Mattithyah the parable is fully explained, yet in Mark it is not, is it possibe that is why those false words were added to Mark 7:19? If they were added to Mattithyah 15, it would have been a contradiction, but Mark having not being fully explained, it left the door open?

I would describe this post as being more heat than light and here is why.

You have ignored what Jesus said. He said it is not what goes into your mouth and belly that defiles you. It is what comes out of us is what defiles us. Right? Then Jesus is saying all food is clean as food can not defile us.
 

Hizikyah

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Aug 25, 2013
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I thought I was trying to answer your question Richie? My first post was Romans 14 if you want to check it out.

Now Hizakya, I found Greek that has the parentheses in Mark that states that all foods are clean, what Greek are you using to defend your statement?
"Thus Jesus declared all foods clean" is not in any original greek text, maybe in later copies, but not in original.

Mark 7:19 Greek Text Analysis

""goeth out into the draught" is what all Greek texts say (και εις τον αφεδρωνα εκπορευεται), and the slightly "archaic” word ‘draught’ (pronounced draft), is found in the Revised Version 1881, the ASV 1901 - “and goeth out into the draught”, Tyndale 1525, Coverdale 1535, the Great Bible 1540, Matthew’s Bible 1549, the Bishops’ Bible 1568, the Geneva Bible 1587 - “and goeth out into the draught”, Whiston’s N.T. 1745, Worsley Version 1770, Webster’s 1833 translation, Darby 1890 - “goes out into the draught”, and Rotherham's Emphasized Bible 1902. "
 

Hizikyah

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Aug 25, 2013
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I would describe this post as being more heat than light and here is why.

You have ignored what Jesus said. He said it is not what goes into your mouth and belly that defiles you. It is what comes out of us is what defiles us. Right? Then Jesus is saying all food is clean as food can not defile us.
I would respectfully call you words as following a Messiah of your own creation, as if all is read it is clear.

Mark 7:17, " But when He had left the people and entered the house, His disciples asked Him about the parable."

Mattithyah 15:15, "But Kepha spoke, and said to Him; Explain this parable to us."

If the disciples need more explanation how can we think we dont?

And the explanation was given:

Mattithyah 15:20, "These are the things which defile a man--but to eat with unwashed hands does not defile a man."

Only one that wants to choose their own path would ignore this, now that is not to say we understand perfectly, even when we have been taught a certian way for years, I personally spent much time studying this passage to find what it said and not what I was told.
 
R

Richie_2uk

Guest
I totally understand, that Jesus says that all foods are clean. and cannot defile us, So why do we need to pray for blessing on the food we eat when we say grace? Blessing means to God's favour and protect right? Yes I get it to say your thanks for the food. but why ask God to bless it, if its already clean?
 

Hizikyah

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Aug 25, 2013
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I totally understand, that Jesus says that all foods are clean. and cannot defile us, So why do we need to pray for blessing on the food we eat when we say grace? Blessing means to God's favour and protect right? Yes I get it to say your thanks for the food. but why ask God to bless it, if its already clean?
"Thus Jesus declared all foods clean" is not in any original greek text, maybe in later copies, but not in original.

Mark 7:19 Greek Text Analysis

""goeth out into the draught" is what all Greek texts say (και εις τον αφεδρωνα εκπορευεται), and the slightly "archaic” word ‘draught’ (pronounced draft), is found in the Revised Version 1881, the ASV 1901 - “and goeth out into the draught”, Tyndale 1525, Coverdale 1535, the Great Bible 1540, Matthew’s Bible 1549, the Bishops’ Bible 1568, the Geneva Bible 1587 - “and goeth out into the draught”, Whiston’s N.T. 1745, Worsley Version 1770, Webster’s 1833 translation, Darby 1890 - “goes out into the draught”, and Rotherham's Emphasized Bible 1902. "
If truth is not of the highest importance than one can make up anything.
 
R

Richie_2uk

Guest
I think its down to respect and thanks giving to God. But can you see why I asked that? what cannot defile you with food, why we need to ask for blessing on it when we say grace. But oh well. Thanks for your all comments.
 

Hizikyah

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Aug 25, 2013
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I think its down to respect and thanks giving to God. But can you see why I asked that? what cannot defile you with food, why we need to ask for blessing on it when we say grace. But oh well. Thanks for your all comments.
Are you saying if they could not defile why "pray over food"? Implying they can defile?

Also im not sure where you stand on Mark 7 and Mattithyah 15, it is called a parable by the disciples, and the non-defilement is talking about eating with "unwashed hands" (according to pharisee ritual) not being able to make one unclean.

Mattithyah 15:20, "These are the things which defile a man--but to eat with unwashed hands does not defile a man."
 
D

danschance

Guest
I would respectfully call you words as following a Messiah of your own creation, as if all is read it is clear.

Mark 7:17, " But when He had left the people and entered the house, His disciples asked Him about the parable."

Mattithyah 15:15, "But Kepha spoke, and said to Him; Explain this parable to us."

If the disciples need more explanation how can we think we dont?

And the explanation was given:

Mattithyah 15:20, "These are the things which defile a man--but to eat with unwashed hands does not defile a man."

Only one that wants to choose their own path would ignore this, now that is not to say we understand perfectly, even when we have been taught a certian way for years, I personally spent much time studying this passage to find what it said and not what I was told.
The parable was about plants(vs.12-14) not the subject of what goes into your belly.Verse 17 Jesus states "EVERYTHING you put in your mouth..." Jesus' comment of not being defiled by eating with unwashed hands is not the whole topic but an ancillary topic as the Pharisees had criticized in vs. 1. Seriously, you are trifling with God's word by twisting the very words of Christ.
 
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Hizikyah

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Aug 25, 2013
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The parable was about plants(vs.12-14) not the subject of what goes into your belly.Verse 17 Jesus states "EVERYTHING you put in your mouth..." Jesus' comment of not being defiled by eating with unwashed hands is not the whole topic but an ancillary topic as the Pharisees had criticized in vs. 1. Seriously, you are trifling with God's word by twisting the very words of Christ.
So how is it that in v15 the meaning of the parable is asked:

Mattithyah 15:15, "But Kepha spoke, and said to Him; Explain this parable to us."

And in v20 the explanation was given:

Mattithyah 15:20, "These are the things which defile a man--but to eat with unwashed hands does not defile a man."

But its not about that? It was explained. BOTTOMLINE.
 
D

danschance

Guest
So how is it that in v15 the meaning of the parable is asked:

Mattithyah 15:15, "But Kepha spoke, and said to Him; Explain this parable to us."

And in v20 the explanation was given:

Mattithyah 15:20, "These are the things which defile a man--but to eat with unwashed hands does not defile a man."

But its not about that? It was explained. BOTTOMLINE.
Obviously you see something that i don't and I am doubtful we will see each others points for what ever reason. I read what you said and I wonder if you read what I said. Either way it is a moot point.
 

Hizikyah

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Aug 25, 2013
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Obviously you see something that i don't and I am doubtful we will see each others points for what ever reason. I read what you said and I wonder if you read what I said. Either way it is a moot point.
I did read what you wrote, the vast majority of the time I do, even if I disagree. Well we agree to disagree I guess? Truthfully, may Yahweh leads us BOTH to know His truth through and through. peace in the name of Messiah:)