Can We Really Exercise Free Will?
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The very essence of...the warp 'n' woof of sin is this insatiable human desire to be God. Lucifer wanted to be God and he fell. Then the evil one tempted Eve to be [like] God, and she fell for that lie (bad pun intended), and then Adam decided that he wanted to be just like his other half. When we read FWers' posts we can easily see how they so glibly attribute not only powers of God to themselves but GREATER powers because they can do things that God Almighty himself cannot do, such as change their own sinful nature, make choices contrary to their nature, raise themselves from the dead, heal themselves of their spiritual blindness, cure their own deafness and come to the Light even though the Darkness does not comprehend the Light. They pride themselves as being quite a mighty force that is powered by the efficacy of their Almighty Freewill.
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Warp and woof is a phrase that came to my mind earlier today after reading a post where a free willer seemed to have agreed with what I/we have been saying about the unregenerated man, the natural state of his incurably wicked heart, and his absolute inability to choose to believe that which is heard as foolishness to him, as he is a slave to sin, lover of darkness, captive to the will of the devil, opposed to the spiritual things of God which by the way, as I am sure you are well aware, he can neither receive nor comprehend... incurably wicked aside from Jesus setting us free, that is. You might think from what another said that this is never mentioned but it has not been neglected, either, despite that particular lie. And then I have t wonder why they need to lie so much? Yes, warp and woof... a welcome to the fold almost seemed called for but for the misrepresentation the other could not help tossing into the mix. But that has been his inclination ever since he joined in on these conversations, so I withheld any comment.
When you examine scripture, you will discover many ways in which God deals with men. He purposes things to take place, He brings thing about just by His thoughts, He causes men to stumble, He will let a lying spirit lead men in the wrong direction, and He will harden the heart of men to do as He wishes,
Exo 7:3
And I will harden Pharaoh’s heart, and multiply My signs and My wonders in the land of Egypt.
Exo 14:17
And I indeed will harden the hearts of the Egyptians, and they shall follow them. So I will gain honor over Pharaoh and over all his army, his chariots, and his horsemen.
Deut 2:30
“But Sihon king of Heshbon would not let us pass through, for the Lord your God hardened his spirit and made his heart obstinate, that He might deliver him into your hand, as it is this day.
Josh 11:20
For it was of the Lord to harden their hearts, that they should come against Israel in battle, that He might utterly destroy them, and that they might receive no mercy, but that He might destroy them, as the Lord had commanded Moses.
Isa 63:17
O Lord, why have You made us stray from Your ways, And hardened our heart from Your fear? Return for Your servants’ sake, The tribes of Your inheritance.
John 12:40
“He has blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts, Lest they should see with their eyes, Lest they should understand with their hearts and turn, So that I should heal them.”
Rom 9:18
Therefore He has mercy on whom He wills, and whom He wills He hardens.
Mark 14:27
Then Jesus said to them, “All of you will be made to stumble because of Me this night, for it is written: ‘I will strike the Shepherd, And the sheep will be scattered.’
1 Kings 22:23
Therefore look! The Lord has put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these prophets of yours, and the Lord has declared disaster against you.”
Jeremiah 6:21
Therefore thus says the Lord: “Behold, I will lay stumbling blocks before this people, And the fathers and the sons together shall fall on them. The neighbor and his friend shall perish.”
Isaiah 14:24
The Lord of hosts has sworn, saying, “Surely, as I have thought, so it shall come to pass, And as I have purposed, so it shall stand:
Isaiah 14:27
For the Lord of hosts has purposed, And who will annul it? His hand is stretched out, And who will turn it back?”
Isaiah 46:11
Calling a bird of prey from the east, The man who executes My counsel, from a far country. Indeed I have spoken it; I will also bring it to pass. I have purposed it; I will also do it.
Jeremiah 4:28
For this shall the earth mourn, And the heavens above be black, Because I have spoken. I have purposed and will not relent, Nor will I turn back from it.
Jeremiah 36:3
It may be that the house of Judah will hear all the adversities which I purpose to bring upon them, that everyone may turn from his evil way, that I may forgive their iniquity and their sin.”
Jeremiah 51:29
And the land will tremble and sorrow; For every purpose of the Lord shall be performed against Babylon, To make the land of Babylon a desolation without inhabitant.
Lamentations 2:17
The Lord has done what He purposed; He has fulfilled His word Which He commanded in days of old. He has thrown down and has not pitied, And He has caused an enemy to rejoice over you; He has exalted the horn of your adversaries.
Romans 8:28
And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose.
Ephesians 1:9
having made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure which He purposed in Himself,
Ephesians 1:11
In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will,
Ephesians 3:11
according to the eternal purpose which He accomplished in Christ Jesus our Lord,
Ephesians 6:22
whom I have sent to you for this very purpose, that you may know our affairs, and that he may comfort your hearts.
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However those whom He loves, He calls!
Romans 9:11
(for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls),
But of course He would no longer do these things today! No, today He relies on MFW!
Exo 7:3
And I will harden Pharaoh’s heart, and multiply My signs and My wonders in the land of Egypt.
Exo 14:17
And I indeed will harden the hearts of the Egyptians, and they shall follow them. So I will gain honor over Pharaoh and over all his army, his chariots, and his horsemen.
Deut 2:30
“But Sihon king of Heshbon would not let us pass through, for the Lord your God hardened his spirit and made his heart obstinate, that He might deliver him into your hand, as it is this day.
Josh 11:20
For it was of the Lord to harden their hearts, that they should come against Israel in battle, that He might utterly destroy them, and that they might receive no mercy, but that He might destroy them, as the Lord had commanded Moses.
Isa 63:17
O Lord, why have You made us stray from Your ways, And hardened our heart from Your fear? Return for Your servants’ sake, The tribes of Your inheritance.
John 12:40
“He has blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts, Lest they should see with their eyes, Lest they should understand with their hearts and turn, So that I should heal them.”
Rom 9:18
Therefore He has mercy on whom He wills, and whom He wills He hardens.
Mark 14:27
Then Jesus said to them, “All of you will be made to stumble because of Me this night, for it is written: ‘I will strike the Shepherd, And the sheep will be scattered.’
1 Kings 22:23
Therefore look! The Lord has put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these prophets of yours, and the Lord has declared disaster against you.”
Jeremiah 6:21
Therefore thus says the Lord: “Behold, I will lay stumbling blocks before this people, And the fathers and the sons together shall fall on them. The neighbor and his friend shall perish.”
Isaiah 14:24
The Lord of hosts has sworn, saying, “Surely, as I have thought, so it shall come to pass, And as I have purposed, so it shall stand:
Isaiah 14:27
For the Lord of hosts has purposed, And who will annul it? His hand is stretched out, And who will turn it back?”
Isaiah 46:11
Calling a bird of prey from the east, The man who executes My counsel, from a far country. Indeed I have spoken it; I will also bring it to pass. I have purposed it; I will also do it.
Jeremiah 4:28
For this shall the earth mourn, And the heavens above be black, Because I have spoken. I have purposed and will not relent, Nor will I turn back from it.
Jeremiah 36:3
It may be that the house of Judah will hear all the adversities which I purpose to bring upon them, that everyone may turn from his evil way, that I may forgive their iniquity and their sin.”
Jeremiah 51:29
And the land will tremble and sorrow; For every purpose of the Lord shall be performed against Babylon, To make the land of Babylon a desolation without inhabitant.
Lamentations 2:17
The Lord has done what He purposed; He has fulfilled His word Which He commanded in days of old. He has thrown down and has not pitied, And He has caused an enemy to rejoice over you; He has exalted the horn of your adversaries.
Romans 8:28
And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose.
Ephesians 1:9
having made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure which He purposed in Himself,
Ephesians 1:11
In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will,
Ephesians 3:11
according to the eternal purpose which He accomplished in Christ Jesus our Lord,
Ephesians 6:22
whom I have sent to you for this very purpose, that you may know our affairs, and that he may comfort your hearts.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
However those whom He loves, He calls!
Romans 9:11
(for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls),
But of course He would no longer do these things today! No, today He relies on MFW!
My YouTube feed played in the background this morning on auto while I was going about my morning routine, so I was only half listening but something Charles Stanley observed that I heard and remembered very distinctly. I don't remember Stanley's exact words, so I'll summarize it. God didn't change His mind about Nineveh, He never changes, and, although He went to great lengths to make sure that Jonah delivered His message to them, God placed th condition of repentance on its fate and left that to them to do.
The doctrine of election can also be harmonized with the doctrine of an all-loving God by understanding the meaning of “in Christ” in Ephesians 1:3-14.
1:3, “Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ. For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love he predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will, to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves. In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God’s grace that he lavished on us with all wisdom and understanding. And he made known to us the mystery of his will according to his good pleasure which he purposed in Christ, to be put into effect when the times will have reached their fulfillment—to bring all things in heaven and on earth together under one head, even Christ.
In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will, in order that we, who were the first to hope in Christ, might be for the praise of his glory. And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.”
In the EPH passage we can see that what the all-loving God predestined was NOT that some souls would be damned, but rather the plan of salvation to elect potentially all humanity, whom He loves and atoned for (1TM 2:3-5), if they exercise their God-given grace of volition to accept His offer of grace IN Christ (2THS 2:10).
27. In Romans 8:28-30 Paul says that those who love God were foreknown and “predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son”, which is akin to what Paul said in Ephesians 1:4-14, that before creating the world God chose or predestined those sinners “in Christ” to be blameless sons and receive the Holy Spirit.
28. Romans 8:31-39 elaborates on the previous point by saying that there is nothing that can separate “we” (who reflect God’s love per v.28) from Christ’s love (but Heb. 10:26-36 indicates one exception).
29. In Romans 9:1-5 Paul notes how sad it is that those who are part of the human ancestry of Christ reject him as Messiah, but being a member of Abraham’s spiritual children is what is crucial (#17).
30. Romans 9:6-13 states that God had chosen which one of Rebecca’s sons (through whom Messiah’s lineage would be traced) before they were born (cf. Mal. 1:2-3). The word translated as “hate” (miseo) is the same as in Luke 14:26 with reference to family, so a better translation would be “preferred”: loving Jacob/hating Esau refers to God preferring that Jacob’s descendants serve as the heritage for Messiah rather than to individual salvation.
31. Romans 9:14-16 stresses that s/e depends on God’s mercy rather than being achieved by human effort (#12), although the preceding context has shown that (the non-meritorious condition of) faith is involved, which truth can be stated as “God initiates; sinners cooperate—or not”, because of MFW.
32. Romans 9:17 refers to pharaoh in Exodus 9:13-35 as an example of someone whom God allowed to oppose His will so that His power might be manifested by the plagues. The OT passage indicates that pharaoh was conscious of his sin but “He and his officials hardened their hearts” (v.34b).
33. Romans 9:18 says that God “hardens whom He wants to harden”, which raises the question asked in v.19, “Why does God blame sinners who cannot resist His will?” Paul’s response (Rom. 9:20-21) is that God has the might and thus the right to determine what is right. Then he speculates (“What if”) that God might have patiently endured evildoers (#20) as evidence of His glory toward recipients of His mercy (Rom. 9:22-23).
34. In Romans 9:24-33 and 10:1-4 Paul notes that God elected to choose Gentiles with saving faith instead of Israelites who sought salvation by works and stumbled over the Gospel of Christ, even though “everyone who believes” receives righteousness or s/e.
1:3, “Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ. For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love he predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will, to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves. In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God’s grace that he lavished on us with all wisdom and understanding. And he made known to us the mystery of his will according to his good pleasure which he purposed in Christ, to be put into effect when the times will have reached their fulfillment—to bring all things in heaven and on earth together under one head, even Christ.
In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will, in order that we, who were the first to hope in Christ, might be for the praise of his glory. And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.”
In the EPH passage we can see that what the all-loving God predestined was NOT that some souls would be damned, but rather the plan of salvation to elect potentially all humanity, whom He loves and atoned for (1TM 2:3-5), if they exercise their God-given grace of volition to accept His offer of grace IN Christ (2THS 2:10).
27. In Romans 8:28-30 Paul says that those who love God were foreknown and “predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son”, which is akin to what Paul said in Ephesians 1:4-14, that before creating the world God chose or predestined those sinners “in Christ” to be blameless sons and receive the Holy Spirit.
28. Romans 8:31-39 elaborates on the previous point by saying that there is nothing that can separate “we” (who reflect God’s love per v.28) from Christ’s love (but Heb. 10:26-36 indicates one exception).
29. In Romans 9:1-5 Paul notes how sad it is that those who are part of the human ancestry of Christ reject him as Messiah, but being a member of Abraham’s spiritual children is what is crucial (#17).
30. Romans 9:6-13 states that God had chosen which one of Rebecca’s sons (through whom Messiah’s lineage would be traced) before they were born (cf. Mal. 1:2-3). The word translated as “hate” (miseo) is the same as in Luke 14:26 with reference to family, so a better translation would be “preferred”: loving Jacob/hating Esau refers to God preferring that Jacob’s descendants serve as the heritage for Messiah rather than to individual salvation.
31. Romans 9:14-16 stresses that s/e depends on God’s mercy rather than being achieved by human effort (#12), although the preceding context has shown that (the non-meritorious condition of) faith is involved, which truth can be stated as “God initiates; sinners cooperate—or not”, because of MFW.
32. Romans 9:17 refers to pharaoh in Exodus 9:13-35 as an example of someone whom God allowed to oppose His will so that His power might be manifested by the plagues. The OT passage indicates that pharaoh was conscious of his sin but “He and his officials hardened their hearts” (v.34b).
33. Romans 9:18 says that God “hardens whom He wants to harden”, which raises the question asked in v.19, “Why does God blame sinners who cannot resist His will?” Paul’s response (Rom. 9:20-21) is that God has the might and thus the right to determine what is right. Then he speculates (“What if”) that God might have patiently endured evildoers (#20) as evidence of His glory toward recipients of His mercy (Rom. 9:22-23).
34. In Romans 9:24-33 and 10:1-4 Paul notes that God elected to choose Gentiles with saving faith instead of Israelites who sought salvation by works and stumbled over the Gospel of Christ, even though “everyone who believes” receives righteousness or s/e.
Again, death was the result of Adam and Eve's sin.
There will be a day when all descendants of Adam stand before God and I believe God will give appropriate judgment.
Do you believe "innocent, sinless" children will be condemned to the lake of fire?
Not according to Ez 18:20
Ezekiel 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.
Again, according to Rom 5:12, it was not the sin of Adam that passed upon all men ... it was death that passed upon all men ...
Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned
rolleyes ... what you say I believe does not equal what I believe.
I have already told you it was death that passed upon all men due to the sin of Adam.
Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned
What makes you think you're the one who is not wrong and that you misunderstand a great deal that follows?
.
There will be a day when all descendants of Adam stand before God and I believe God will give appropriate judgment.
Do you believe "innocent, sinless" children will be condemned to the lake of fire?
Not according to Ez 18:20
Ezekiel 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.
Again, according to Rom 5:12, it was not the sin of Adam that passed upon all men ... it was death that passed upon all men ...
Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned
rolleyes ... what you say I believe does not equal what I believe.
I have already told you it was death that passed upon all men due to the sin of Adam.
Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned
What makes you think you're the one who is not wrong and that you misunderstand a great deal that follows?
.